US Politics Thread |OT| THE DARKEST TIMELINE

[Great Rumbler]

With all the noise from Fox News and right wing radio, sometimes it's easy to forget what real, actual oppression is and what real, actual violent dictatorships look like:

Some 80 people were publicly executed earlier this month in seven cities in North Korea excluding Pyongyang, the first known large-scale public executions by the Kim Jong-un regime, the JoongAng Ilbo reported.

The executions occurred on Sunday, Nov. 3, according to a source familiar with internal affairs in the North who recently visited the country.

The people were executed for relatively light transgressions such as watching South Korean movies or distributing pornography.

About 10 people were killed in each city, which included Wonsan in Kangwon Province, Chongjin in North Hamgyong Province, Sariwon in North Hwanghae Province and Pyongsong in South Pyongan.

In Wonsan, eight people were tied to a stakes at a local stadium, had their heads covered with white sacks and were shot with a machine gun, according to the source.

According to witnesses of the execution, the source said, Wonsan authorities gathered some 10,000 people, including children, at Shinpoong Stadium, which has a capacity of 30,000 people, and forced them to watch.

“I heard from the residents that they watched in terror as the corpses were riddled by machine-gun fire that they were hard to identify afterwards.”

The Wonsan victims were mostly charged with watching or illegally trafficking South Korean videos, being involved in prostitution or being in possession of a Bible.

Accomplices or relatives of the executed people who were implicated in their alleged crimes were sent to prison camps.

The reason for the executions wasn’t immediately clear. They seem to have occurred in cities that are centers of economic development, according to a government official.

Wonsan is a port city that Kim is planning to transform into a tourist destination by constructing vacation facilities such as hotels, an airport and a ski resort on Mount Masik.

The idea that executions would be held simultaneously on a weekend in seven cities suggests an extreme measure by the central government to stamp out public unrest or capitalistic zeal accompanying its development projects.

[Joe Molotov]

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/11/alabama-man-no-prison-time-raping-teenager

"It would seem to be relatively mild," Totten tells Mother Jones. "But [Clem's] lifestyle for the next six years is going to be very controlled…If he goes to a party and they're serving beer, he can't say, 'Can I have one?' If he wanted to go across the Tennessee line, which as the crow flies is eight or nine miles from his house, and buy a lottery ticket, he can't do that…It's not a slap on the wrist."

I wonder if he would have gotten the same sentencing if he was black and/or facing a drug conviction.

[helios]

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/11/alabama-man-no-prison-time-raping-teenager

"It would seem to be relatively mild," Totten tells Mother Jones. "But [Clem's] lifestyle for the next six years is going to be very controlled…If he goes to a party and they're serving beer, he can't say, 'Can I have one?' If he wanted to go across the Tennessee line, which as the crow flies is eight or nine miles from his house, and buy a lottery ticket, he can't do that…It's not a slap on the wrist."

I wonder if he would have gotten the same sentencing if he was black and/or facing a drug conviction.

A black guy raping a white girl in Alabama? There wouldn't even be a trial.

[chronovore]

That doesn't excuse wasting a bunch of money to build a shitty, poorly coded website that doesn't work though, to be fair. And not putting it through adequate stress tests, then watching it fail it's last stress test and being like "oh well, out of time!"

BTW I'm more shocked that Oregon's state site is so borked. They've been on the forefront of making the law work since it passed, only to drop the ball on their site. Meanwhile Kentucky is trucking along with a great site.

The site may be poorly designed, but that's separate from why it's not operating well when people try to access it:
http://www.examiner.com/article/right-wing-cyber-attacks-on-healthcare-gov-website-confirmed

[Brehvolution]

If that's true, I hope the DOJ brings the hammer down.

[Human Snorenado]

BITCOINZZZZZ Y'ALLL

RON PAUL 2016 ASSASSINATE BERNANKE IT'S HAPPENING!!!!!

http://www.theverge.com/2013/11/18/5117450/bitcoin-powered-assassination-market-targets-obama-bernanke

[Phoenix Dark]

Exclusive: Sen. Bob Corker Moves to Stop Obama from Lifting Iran Sanctions

On the eve of new nuclear negotiations with Iran, the top Republican senator on the Foreign Relations Committee is considering legislation that would prevent President Obama from loosening sanctions on the Tehran regime.

“We’ve crafted an amendment to freeze the administration in and make it so they are unable to reduce the sanctions unless certain things occur,” Sen. Bob Corker (R-TN) told The Daily Beast in an interview Wednesday. “They have the ability now to waive sanctions. But we’re very concerned that in their desire to make any deal that they may in fact do something that is very bad for our country.”

Corker said that his new legislative language would freeze the administration’s ability to waive sanctions currently in place until or unless Iran agrees to large concessions on its nuclear and missile programs. The concessions Corker is demanding go way beyond the incremental deal being contemplated this week in Geneva, where Iran will meet with officials from the U.S. and the other countries in the P5+1 group, which includes Britain, France, Russia, China, and Germany.

The new legislation, if passed, could throw a wrench into the administration’s plans to use incremental confidence building measures, including some sanctions relief for Iran, as a means of continuing the nuclear negotiations into next year.

Under Corker’s plan the Obama administration would be barred from using the waivers that are currently on the books to create limited exemptions to the sanctions program unless Iran agrees to stop all enrichment and reprocessing and adhere to U.N. Security Council Resolutions now in place. For the Iranians to comply with those terms they would need to suspend all work on their heavy water reactor at Arak, suspend all work and testing on ballistic missiles, and come clean with the IAEA on all military dimensions of their nuclear program.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/11/06/senator-bob-corker-moves-to-stop-obama-from-lifting-iran-sanctions.html

The facade of strength+never ending tension>potential for peace, apparently

I'm glad Obama has more leeway on this than with domestic legislation. When you have China AND Russia as willing participants at the table, you can't waste the opportunity to get something done.

[Great Rumbler]

That same move would have been considered treason under the previous administration.

[DCharlieJP]

Corker said that his new legislative language would freeze the administration’s ability to waive sanctions

loooooooooooooooooooooool get real.

[Phoenix Dark]

It's largely a meaniness bill designed to denounce the US administration in favor of Israel. Reminds me of when republicans and democrats jumped over Obama for discussing 1967 lines with land swaps, as if he had said something new or controversial. But hey, Bibi was mad so they were too. Disgusting.

[ToxicAdam]

This is a pretty amazing interview of a person who was a staffer with the US Senate during the 40's all the way through LBJ.

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2013/11/sex-in-the-senate-bobby-baker-99530_Page2.html

Its super long, but has a bunch of amazing dirt in it.

[Lovingsteam]

This ACA rollout has been an embarrassment. So so terrible. At work we have been waiting to get our credentials to sell on the Washington exchange since October. Finally receive the login credentials today and shocking! It doesn't work. So pathetic. While the law itself has/will do a lot of good, Obama and his administration deserve all the blame they're rightfully receiving for the terrible implementation.

[Phoenix Dark]

I really don't believe that it'll be working for 80% of people in ten days.

[Lovingsteam]

I really don't believe that it'll be working for 80% of people in ten days.

It won't. The website wouldn't even work for Sebelius today when she was speaking to navigators lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-l5d7VauBY&feature=player_embedded

[Phoenix Dark]

Meanwhile the GAF thread thinks this is some game or temporary issue that won't matter in the long run. The deadline for January 1st coverage is on December 15. I'm assuming the site won't be ready on November 30th/December 1st, especially because tons of people will flood it once again. And if it's not ready by the 15th...yeah.

The law fails if enough young people don't sign up. The sickest folks will call, visit ACA navigators, etc. I can't see young people doing all that. Even the mobile site doesn't work. Overall it's just a horrible, horrible fuck up.

[Lovingsteam]

Meanwhile the GAF thread thinks this is some game or temporary issue that won't matter in the long run. The deadline for January 1st coverage is on December 15. I'm assuming the site won't be ready on November 30th/December 1st, especially because tons of people will flood it once again. And if it's not ready by the 15th...yeah.

The law fails if enough young people don't sign up. The sickest folks will call, visit ACA navigators, etc. I can't see young people doing all that. Even the mobile site doesn't work. Overall it's just a horrible, horrible fuck up.

Honestly, a lot of folks will still defend this because Obama and the Dems passed it. It disappoints me even more because I supported this law and Obama. It's embarrassing.

[Human Snorenado]

I dunno.  I think that it will have a really long time to "fail" or succeed.  And, over time, enough people will enroll that it will bend the cost curve in a meaningful way.

But yeah, man what a clusterfuck of a roll out.

[Mandark]

Website works fine for me, cause my state actually set up its own exchange.

[Lovingsteam]

Website works fine for me, cause my state actually set up its own exchange.

So did my state (Washington) though you wouldn't know it half of the time.

[Phoenix Dark]

Michigan, late to the party and half assed as usual

[Great Rumbler]

Christmas came early for Awesome-O:

After years of threats and warnings that ended with a whimper, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV) and his Democratic majority on Thursday finally executed the "nuclear option" to end the filibuster for judicial and executive branch nominees.

Fifty-two Democrats voted against upholding the filibuster rules after Republicans again blocked cloture on the nomination of Patricia Millett to the D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals. Democratic Sens. Carl Levin (D-MI), Joe Manchin (D-WV) and Mark Pryor (D-AR) voted with Republicans to sustain the filibuster rules.

[Brehvolution]

Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY) fumed at Reid's decision, accusing him of trying to change the subject from Obamacare and "cook up some fake fight over judges." He argued that "by any objective standard, Senate Republicans have been very, very fair to this president" when it comes to letting him appoint his nominees.

[Lovingsteam]

Wake up to Reid's balls dropping down to the ground? Good day.

[Joe Molotov]

Harry Reid 2016

[Brehvolution]

Approve of title change.

Love the Fox News headline

"Reid, Dems push through change in senate rules to weaken minority"

Isn't it a pillar of the republican party to weaken minorities?

[CatsCatsCats]

Reid pullin the trigger

I've been listening to a lot of Democracy Now and a bit of the Thom Hartmann Program -- how do you guys rank these shows as sources of news and politics?

[Eric P]

i love Democracy Now but it's basically "depressing shit daily"

[Rufus]

i love Democracy Now but it's basically "depressing shit daily"

Almost all news is. 

[Brehvolution]

https://twitter.com/SenatorReid/status/403581600224776192

[huckleberry]

https://twitter.com/SenatorReid/status/403581600224776192

(Image removed from quote.)

i just listened to that for 5 minutes on loop.....so good.

[Joe Molotov]

Republicans, wounded and eager to show they have not been stripped of all power, are far more likely to unify against the Democrats who humiliated them in such dramatic fashion.

I'm going to hate to see this era of cooperation and non-partisanship come to end.  :'(

[Great Rumbler]

"President Obama will get a short-term lift for his nominees, judicial and otherwise," the New York Times states, "but over the immediate horizon, the strong-arm move by Senate Democrats on Thursday to limit filibusters could usher in an era of rank partisan warfare beyond even what Americans have seen in the past five years."

oh no not rank partisan warfare how we will ever survive this horror

[Human Snorenado]

I'm waiting to hear what David Brooks things, brehs

[Phoenix Dark]

Short term? There are more than 90 judicial vacancies...

The senate has accomplished some things this year no doubt, and I don't expect that to change. Overall it's a more logical body than the House. The problem is that the House won't pass most of the things the Senate passes, so regardless we'll be stuck with an economy slowly getting strangled to death while everyone sits back and does nothing.

[Great Rumbler]

On his November 22 radio show, Glenn Beck claimed that Kennedy has been "co-opted by the left "and that "if you could bring back the politician JFK was, he wouldn't be accepted by the Republican Party because he would be a Tea Party radical" who "wouldn't even recognize what this country has become."

On his November 21 program, Limbaugh claimed that President Kennedy "was not in any way a liberal as you know liberals today," citing his support for tax cuts and the fact that he was "proud to be an American." He added that Kennedy "was not a big believer in the Civil Rights Act."

During an interview on the November 17 Fox News Sunday with Kennedy's niece Kathleen Kennedy Townsend, host Chris Wallace claimed that "there's a growing body of thought that in fact President Kennedy was quite conservative in some of his policies." Wallace claimed Kennedy "believed that tax cuts spur the economy."

Boston Globe columnist Jeff Jacoby also cited Kennedy's position on taxation and claimed that "Kennedy was no liberal. By any reasonable definition, he was a conservative" and that "Today's Democratic Party -- the home of Barack Obama, John Kerry, and Al Gore -- wouldn't give the time of day to a candidate like JFK."

Breitbart.com senior editor at large Joel B. Pollak wrote that the Obama administration's efforts to negotiate a deal to limit Iran's nuclear capabilities "reject[] the lessons, and the principles, of the Kennedy legacy."

On the November 18 edition of Your World, Fox's Neil Cavuto hosted Ira Stoll, the author of JFK, Conservative. In his introduction to the segment, Cavuto asked, "As we approach the fiftieth anniversary of JFK's assassination, what if I told you he was more to the right than the left likes to admit?"  Later in the interview, Cavuto stated that "No one has given a better argument for lowering taxes - and I include Ronald Reagan - than JFK. Go figure."

Breitbart's AWR Hawkins wrote that "two aspects" of Kennedy's legacy "that are not getting the attention they deserve are his lifetime membership in the NRA and his defense of the Second Amendment."

http://mediamatters.org/blog/2013/11/22/stealing-kennedy-conservatives-try-to-hijack-th/197020

spoiler (click to show/hide)

[close]

[Phoenix Dark]

He wanted to cut the top tax rate from 90% to 70%. What a conservative!

[Human Snorenado]

I'm pretty sure they tried the same thing with MLK

[Great Rumbler]

Basically, anyone who is very popular, and also very dead, is a conservative hero.

[ToxicAdam]

2016 campaign started today!

"I just have a Midwestern filter, that's the difference. I'm willing to speak out, but I'm not going to call you an idiot."

-- Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker (R), quoted by the AP, comparing himself with New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie (R).

I'm voting for the Midwestern values candidate.

[CatsCatsCats]

i love Democracy Now but it's basically "depressing shit daily"

The coverage of COP19 has been pretty  ""

[Brehvolution]

JFK - Commie socialist when alive, conservative in death.

[Eric P]

i dunno
warmongering racist who lowered taxes?  I can see where they're coming from

[Phoenix Dark]

[Great Rumbler]

Just goes to show that conservative talking points really haven't changed much in the past...oh...one hundred years.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

"There's going to be a program this week against this bill, an English physician is going to come and talk about how bad their plans are. And it may be. But he ought to talk about it in England!"

[close]

[Joe Molotov]

Betraying the constitution and turning American sovereignty over to the United Nations, where have I heard that before?

[ToxicAdam]

Obama calling his favorite football play again

The Obama administration "is planning to push back the period during which Americans sign up for coverage under the new health law in its second year of operation, a change that could reassure insurers while also avoiding the 2014 midterm elections," the Wall Street Journal reports.

Such a shift "would ensure that Democrats facing tough re-election races next fall don't have to campaign at the same time as open enrollment is taking place, although some premium information would be already available during the campaign."

[Phoenix Dark]

http://openvault.wgbh.org/catalog/radio-484665-boston-symphony-audience-learns-of-the-death-of-jfk

[ToxicAdam]

https://twitter.com/SenatorReid/status/403581600224776192

(Image removed from quote.)

Looks like Harry's got some hypocrisy of his own ...

Here is the exchange with fellow Democrat Daschle, who was majority leader from 2001 to 2003:


Daschle: What was the nuclear option, and what likelihood is there that we’re going to have to face nuclear option-like questions again?


Reid: What the Republicans came up with was a way to change our country forever. They made a decision if they didn’t get every judge they wanted, every judge they wanted then they were going to make the Senate just like the House of Representatives. We would in fact have a unicameral legislature where a simple majority would determine whatever happens.

In the House of Representatives today, [Nancy] Pelosi’s the leader. Prior to that, it was [Dennis] Hastert. Whatever they wanted, Hastert or Pelosi, they get done. The rules over there allow that.

The Senate was set up to be different. That was the genius, the vision of our Founding Fathers, that this bicameral legislature which was unique, had two different duties. One was as Franklin said, to pour the coffee into the saucer and let it cool off. That’s why you have the ability to filibuster and to terminate filibuster.

They wanted to get rid of all that, and that’s what the nuclear option was all about.

Daschle: And is there any likelihood that we’re going to face circumstances like that again?

Reid: As long as I am the Leader, the answer’s no. I think we should just forget that. That is a black chapter in the history of the Senate. I hope we never, ever get to that again because I really do believe it will ruin our country. I said during that debate that in all my years in government, that was the most important thing I ever worked on.

'black chapter'? haha

[Mandark]

Whoa whoa whoa.

Politicians in leadership positions are hypocrites?  Guys this changes everything.

[Phoenix Dark]

Senate fuckery is an issue where you could pull the "both sides" card without looking dumb. However only one side has taken obstruction of judicial and administration nominees to Olympian heights.

93 judicial vacancies....

[Great Rumbler]

https://twitter.com/SenatorReid/status/403581600224776192

(Image removed from quote.)

Looks like Harry's got some hypocrisy of his own ...

Here is the exchange with fellow Democrat Daschle, who was majority leader from 2001 to 2003:


Daschle: What was the nuclear option, and what likelihood is there that we’re going to have to face nuclear option-like questions again?


Reid: What the Republicans came up with was a way to change our country forever. They made a decision if they didn’t get every judge they wanted, every judge they wanted then they were going to make the Senate just like the House of Representatives. We would in fact have a unicameral legislature where a simple majority would determine whatever happens.

In the House of Representatives today, [Nancy] Pelosi’s the leader. Prior to that, it was [Dennis] Hastert. Whatever they wanted, Hastert or Pelosi, they get done. The rules over there allow that.

The Senate was set up to be different. That was the genius, the vision of our Founding Fathers, that this bicameral legislature which was unique, had two different duties. One was as Franklin said, to pour the coffee into the saucer and let it cool off. That’s why you have the ability to filibuster and to terminate filibuster.

They wanted to get rid of all that, and that’s what the nuclear option was all about.

Daschle: And is there any likelihood that we’re going to face circumstances like that again?

Reid: As long as I am the Leader, the answer’s no. I think we should just forget that. That is a black chapter in the history of the Senate. I hope we never, ever get to that again because I really do believe it will ruin our country. I said during that debate that in all my years in government, that was the most important thing I ever worked on.

'black chapter'? haha

Reid's been pretty consistent in his desire to not use the nuclear option, going so far as to repeatedly accept Republican "promises" even though he knew they'd get broken as soon as the handshake ended. That he finally did do it says a lot about what he thinks about the two options Republicans have insisted on presenting him with.

[Phoenix Dark]

One thing of note on this story, which I really think has been overlooked: this only applies to non SC judicial picks and cabinet/administration nominees. Typically the "nuclear option" was associated with a fullbore ending of the filibuster, as in "I wish Reid/Obama would trigger the nuclear option so they could pass a damn bill."

[Great Rumbler]

One thing of note on this story, which I really think has been overlooked: this only applies to non SC judicial picks and cabinet/administration nominees. Typically the "nuclear option" was associated with a fullbore ending of the filibuster, as in "I wish Reid/Obama would trigger the nuclear option so they could pass a damn bill."

It's not necessarily being overlooked, but it's presented within the context of "Whelp, Reid opened the floodgates, the next GOP Senate will totally abolish the filibuster completely to "punish" the Democrats."

[Phoenix Dark]

"Let's say, let's take 10 people in a room and they're a group," he said on his radio show. "And the room is made up of six men and four women. OK? The group has a rule that the men cannot rape the women. The group also has a rule that says any rule that will be changed must require six votes, of the 10, to change the rule.

"Every now and then, some lunatic in the group proposes to change the rule to allow women to be raped," he added. "But they never were able to get six votes for it. There were always the four women voting against it and they always found two guys."

"Well, the guy that kept proposing that women be raped finally got tired of it, and he was in the majority and he was one that [said], 'You know what? We're going to change the rule. Now all we need is five,'" he continued. "And well, 'you can't do that.' 'Yes we are. We're the majority. We're changing the rule.' And then they vote.

"Can the women be raped? Well, all it would take then is half of the room. You can change the rule to say three," he said. "You can change the rule to say three people want it, it's going to happen. There's no rule. When the majority can change the rules there aren't any."

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/rush-limbaugh-compares-changing-the-filibuster-to-rape-audio

 

I want to be a black conservative. I could do this.

[Joe Molotov]

Let's say, let's take 10 people in a room, and six of them are men and four of them are Rush Limbaugh's fat head. How long would it take for Rush Limbaugh to give up his ass for some oxycontin?

[ToxicAdam]

Whoa whoa whoa.

Politicians in leadership positions are hypocrites?  Guys this changes everything.

You picked an odd time to get frustrated in a thread full of instances of politicians being hypocrites. Was this the one that finally broke you?

[Oblivion]

i dunno
warmongering racist who lowered taxes?  I can see where they're coming from

Racist?

On his November 21 program, Limbaugh claimed that President Kennedy "was not in any way a liberal as you know liberals today," citing his support for tax cuts and the fact that he was "proud to be an American." He added that Kennedy "was not a big believer in the Civil Rights Act."

Wait, wait, wait. Rush is saying this as if it makes conservatives look good?

[Yeti]

TURKEYGHAZI

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2013/11/obama-pardons-turkeys-then-they-die/

Also there was some kind of deal with Iran or something.

[Phoenix Dark]

Kerry's on a roll
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/iran-nuclear-deal-reached

might as well call for a pre-emptive "Mandark explain" for Bibi's response.

[Great Rumbler]

AXIS OF EVIL!!!!!