US Politics Thread |OT| THE DARKEST TIMELINE

[benjipwns]

I always forget, I use "Marxism" (well, when seriously) to mostly refer to Marxist history and historiography. It's a habit I need to break.

But I did go through a "political evolution" that always involved dancing around the legitimacy of the state until I couldn't prevent the logic anymore. The closest I got to a "mainstream anything" was a short period of basically Ron Paul Republicanism in the early 2000s. And arguing with people who were posting things against the Iraq War by citing UN resolutions, the 1991 ceasefire and other stuff they couldn't argue against because they only knew the "WAR FOR OIL" talking points, even though my real position was more of a "if we're going to fuck with Iraq, let's just get rid of Saddam and drop it already" sort of "war to end war" stance that I'm somewhat ashamed of having taken.

It's probably not valid for me to ever refer to a Marxist period since I've always had a problem with the part where we establish a dictatorship of the proletariat and then the state withers away. And Marx's explanation for this underpants gnomes logic was "IT'S SCIENCE!" Then I read either Bakunin or Kropotkin (forget which first) and I was forever like lol Marx 

Hayek's Road to Serfdom is probably the most influential on me though because the construction he uses got me to put together the pieces of the Pretense of Knowledge which goes back to the whole Socrates or whoever's "knowing what you don't know" which sort of dismantled all the "standard ideologies" and left me vulnerable to the anarchist temptations. So other than Hayek and the Federalist Papers I suppose, I took somewhat of a backwards path into finding more in the company of Mises, Rothbard, Nozick, etc. Which is probably how I avoided Rand since her gibberish is so hostile to their more peaceful (other than Rothbard) and logic-based thinking.

Though in practice I'm an evolutionist not a revolutionist, I just think people need to be reminded of their underlying principles from time to time. You know so that once we've established they're a whore for the state we can negotiate prices.

[Kara]

Origin stories.

[benjipwns]

I had a friend in high school who called himself a Leninist-Maoist.

His primary and maybe only political belief was that if we eliminated physical money and forced people to only barter there would be no poverty because everyone would trade what they had in surplus for what they needed.

Then he started working in the Democratic Party campaign offices in college because he had "become a centrist moderate." Just posts whatever meme/talking point the party puts out.

Had another friend who was fairly religious and strong Republican. In college he became like short of becoming a monk epic religious and decided the Republicans were Godless heathens who had lost the path of Jesus. Dropped politics completely and now he'll play like an entire game in one twelve hour sitting. (Have him on my Steam friends.)

People are weird. But maybe not that second guy. I should look into his ideology more.

[chronovore]

http://www.politico.com/story/2014/08/fox-keith-ablow-michelle-obama-109985.html

Fox News psychiatrist

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Fox News psychiatrist

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[benjipwns]

I guess you could say Rawls is an influence and Rousseau and Hobbes and More and Plato, influences can be negative. Rawls being so hyped by so many (writers, professors, etc.) left me with massive disappointment when I finally read it because I was just like...wat, which was admittingly later than I should have.

Road to Serfdom isn't Hayek's best work, that's probably The Use of Knowledge in Society and/or Law, Legislation and Liberty, but I think it's the most accessible and concise.

You probably didn't see it AWESOM-O but somebody in PoliGAF asked me what books could my insane philosophy possibly come from and I posted a list where I cobbled together the first ones that came to mind...

Huemer, Michael. The problem of political authority : an examination of the right to coerce and the duty to obey. Houndmills, Basingstoke, Hampshire New York: Palgrave Macmillan, 2013.

Bakunin, Mikhail A., and Marshall Shatz. Statism and anarchy. Cambridge New York: Cambridge University Press, 1990.

Bastiat, Frédéric. The Law. Dean Russell, trans. Irvington-on-Hudson, NY: Foundation for Economic Education, Inc. 1998. Library of Economics and Liberty [Online] available from http://www.econlib.org/library/Bastiat/basLaw.html; accessed 11 August 2014; Internet.

Hayek, Friedrich A. The road to serfdom. Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1994.

Kropotkin, Petr A., and Thomas H. Huxley. Mutual aid, a factor of evolution. Boston: Extending Horizons Books, 1955.

Mises, Ludwig von. The clash of group interests Auburn, Ala: Ludwig von Mises Institute, 2011.

Rothbard, Murray N. Egalitarianism as a revolt against nature, and other essays. Auburn, Ala: Ludwig von Mises Institute, 2000.

The Mises one is really the title essay, but the others in it are okay.

All of these but the first one are free somewhere, and the first one is "free" at a certain online library that shares a name with a Sega console. (But only in the US.)

Huemer's my real stan book. Need to convince Glenn Beck to stan that one somehow.

[Kara]

I had a friend in high school who called himself a Leninist-Maoist.

His primary and maybe only political belief was that if we eliminated physical money and forced people to only barter there would be no poverty because everyone would trade what they had in surplus for what they needed.

Then he started working in the Democratic Party campaign offices in college because he had "become a centrist moderate." Just posts whatever meme/talking point the party puts out.

Well there is Marxism-Leninism-Maoism, but the no money thing is more Mao Zedong Thought than MLM. (See: the promotion of mutual aid and cooperative stages of land reform in the PRC.)

If you discount New Deomcracy's collaborationist stance with bourgeoisie big and small that is.

In M-L circles I always get kind of weirded out by self-described Maoists since (1) they're usually living in the (economic) core and staning for something that's meant for the (economic) periphery and (2) the mass line is a significant enough revision to (Leninist) vanguardism that you really should be kicked out of the club altogether and treated like Trots.

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Many years ago I once had an argument with my sibling about what First and Second World meant with me using Three Worlds Theory and they using the traditional Western definitions.

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[benjipwns]

I've never understood the Maoists. At least Lenin could write.

Juche stuff makes more sense than some of Mao's writings.

[Kara]

It's probably because Maoism is an anti-intellectual line.

Since we're talking major influences, I guess mine was Bukharin as I used his ABCs for my starting point in adulthood. (Try reading Marx while working 90+ hours a week brehs.) Gonna troll the comrades so hard when the CPC beats America (economically) using the NEP on steroids but keeping my tankie cred since they did it with Socialism in One Country.

[benjipwns]

Quite frankly, if you aren't collectivizing the farms and using inherited vernalization I don't see the point of Communism.

[benjipwns]

https://www.marxists.org/archive/hess/1845/essence-money.htm

This is my favorite article on marxists.org by far.

[Kara]

"You may don a thousand masks, change your name and your religion and your mode of life, creep through the world incognito so that nobody notices that you are a Jew yet every insult to the Jewish name will wound you more than a man of honour who remains loyal to his family and defends his good name."

[Dickie Dee]

1. Give a 9-year-old an uzi
2. Have her fire off one shot in single-shot mode
3. LET'S GOT FULL-AUTO

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/video-shows-girl-moments-before-shooting-instructor-arizona

At least it was the dumbass instructor that got it. There was a similar story a couple years back with a boy of similar age, except when he squeezed the trigger the uzi kicked back and the muzzle swung up to his face, still on full auto. 

[Yeti]

She's going to have to live the rest of her life knowing she killed someone though. 

[toku]

Rawls is the leftist version of smoking a bowl of some nice mids. Not dank, but it'll get you comfortably high. But benji, benji needs ideological ice bong rips and dabs. He's the political equivalent of the guy at the party offering you strikeouts. Rawls is too nice for benji.

Felt a little sad I knew what a strikeout was =/

[Brehvolution]

The only lives worth saving are the (American)unborn.

[Great Rumbler]

This March, as an alternative of sorts to the Affordable Care Act, Florida's Republican-led government launched a health insurance website called Florida Health Choices. It had no relation to HealthCare.gov, the federal Obamacare website, and offered limited-benefit options that cover things like prescription drugs and dental or vision services.

But since the launch of the Republican alternative, Florida Health Choices has signed up 30 people, the Tampa Bay Times reported Friday. By comparison, 984,000 Floridians enrolled in private coverage under Obamacare and 764,000 low-income residents were unable to obtain any kind of coverage through the federal law because the GOP- controlled state legislature refused to expand Medicaid.

[AdmiralViscen]

$900,000 well spent.

Now spend $0 and cover the $750k stuck out of Medicaid for no reason.

[Phoenix Dark]

but how many of them have paid their premiums!

[Kara]

Who wants to bet the company that got that 900K contract has ties to the Florida GOP that are more than tenuous?

[benjipwns]

Who wants to bet the company that got that 900K contract has ties to the Florida GOP that are more than tenuous?

It's highly unlikely, I would assume that the state set up a rigorous challenge and they were the only company that managed to get the artifact out of the temple without losing any pendants.

[I'm a Puppy!]

30 people? Holy hell. I get more hits than that on my blog every week and I haven't posted  there in months.

[benjipwns]

[Kara]

The president is clearly a winter, idk what he was thinking wearing tan too, Representative King.

[Joe Molotov]

Tanghazi

[Kara]

YouTube CC translated that as 10 Ghazi.

[Great Rumbler]

Yeah, I'm really sure that ISIS is more interested in Obama's tan suit than they are dodging missiles fired from American drones.

[benjipwns]

The drones probably won't even take off once they see footage of Obama in such a weak suit. Or crash themselves.

[Phoenix Dark]

(Image removed from quote.) it's been so long since I've heard a Republican say something worth listening to. I can't even tell you the last time.

I was going to bring up Rand Paul's Time piece until I remembered he apparently plagiarized it from a democrat.

[Great Rumbler]

[benjipwns]

Until I see otherwise that is the greatest fucking suit a President has ever worn. It could have been any President, but something about it being Reagan sells it extra hard.

If I'm ever elected to the Presidency (*half the room faints*) it's going to be stuff like that and what Larry Brown wore on the sidelines in the ABA.

[Phoenix Dark]

Obama should just say fuck it and go full Craig Sager.

[Joe Molotov]

On casual Fridays, he should wear anime t-shirts and jorts.

[benjipwns]

On casual Fridays, he should wear anime t-shirts and jorts.

Not funny. You go too far.

[I'm a Puppy!]

In the mormon church you're often told "unofficially" to always wear a white shirt and if you're wearing a suit it must be dark colored. Many missionaries were told to only wear dark suits because that's what "the brethren" (meaning the first presidency and 12 apostles) only wear dark suits. Then one day the prophet wore a brown suit and people proceeded to completely lose their shit.

[benjipwns]

Okay, so there's a book where the author argues that your cultural identification determines your vulnerability to political identifications. Does anyone remember or know of this book or author?

I feel like it may be more than one but that there's a more famous one or two, like one in the 1920/1950's from some socialist and then somebody rehashed the idea in the 1990's as some kind of stupid neo-behavioralist concept.

[Squiddy]

What do you weed defenders have to say about that?
Do we really want to legalize this drug and have the next generation of children grow up maladjusted?

[benjipwns]

Well, yeah, more targets for the police.

[benjipwns]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Columbia_Excalibur_Party

[Phoenix Dark]

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/fox-politichicks-feminists-cave-women

spoiler (click to show/hide)

http://www.politico.com/story/2014/08/gop-poll-of-women-party-stuck-in-past-110398.html

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[Joe Molotov]

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/fox-politichicks-feminists-cave-women

spoiler (click to show/hide)

http://www.politico.com/story/2014/08/gop-poll-of-women-party-stuck-in-past-110398.html

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https://twitter.com/GOP/status/506524410158006272

Checkmate, Dems. 

[Human Snorenado]

Thanks for dicksplaining things to them average blacks, Papa Cruz

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/rafael-cruz-average-black-minimum-wage

[Phoenix Dark]

out of interest I'd love to know if he thinks the average "white" understands the minimum wage.

[Brehvolution]

Look up Rafael Cruz and "God's Bankers". That should tell you who the real god is.

[Great Rumbler]

Ted Cruz's dad is a total nutjob. Like, I think Ted is actually a pretty smart guy, just with no scruples, who's figured out how to easily and effectively raise his profile with a large group of very loyal followers, but his dad? Totally believes that stuff 100%, I don't doubt that at all.

[benjipwns]

Rafael Cruz fought for Castro in the Revolution, like I'm going to trust some Commie bastard.

[benjipwns]

[DCharlieJP]

Hannity / Robertson

These gang land style thugs in ISIS , running around forcing people to convert or else they kill them.

How should we handle this?

Solution : force them to convert or else kill them!

Genuis. Utter genuis.

[Brehvolution]

That beard makes him look like a Muslim.

[Phoenix Dark]

hmmmm

[Oblivion]

The 23 states that have refused Medicaid expansion under Obamacare will be sending $152 billion in taxes paid over the next 10 years to states that did expand. That's from a McClatchy analysis of Urban Institute data. Among the states that will be really losing out, is North Carolina, which will shell out about $10 billion.

Taxpayer contributions, estimated at $10.2 billion from North Carolina and $3.1 billion from South Carolina, won’t change regardless of participation. But as things stand, only the 27 states (along with Washington, D.C.) that expanded Medicaid or created their own programs are sharing in the benefits. […]

Medicaid looms at the top of the agenda when the North Carolina legislature convenes in January. What’s unclear is whether Republican leaders will reconsider their refusal to accept the federal money.

This year, Senate leaders clashed with Gov. Pat McCrory and House leaders over plans to control medical costs and improve the state Medicaid system. None of them called for expanding Medicaid.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/09/03/1326814/-Medicaid-refusal-states-paying-out-billions-to-insure-people-in-other-nbsp-states


This is a very specific bit of idiocy that I've been following really closely, as some of you might already know. It would have been one thing to refuse the medicaid expansion if that's all what would have been effected. But it's another to refuse the medicaid expansion when your citizens are already paying and will continue to pay taxes for it. You get all the costs but none of the benefits. Not exactly the most ingenious way to say "fuck you, ObaMAO!".

[Kara]

You get all the costs but none of the benefits. Not exactly the most ingenious way to say "fuck you!" to Obama.

The aim is to erode support for the law with the eventual aim of repealing it, not just sticking a middle finger out at the president.

If people are paying for something they don't get, it's going to make them .

e: 23 states is almost 50 senators. (I realize it's not that simple.)

[Oblivion]

You get all the costs but none of the benefits. Not exactly the most ingenious way to say "fuck you!" to Obama.

The aim is to erode support for the law with the eventual aim of repealing it, not just sticking a middle finger out at the president.

If people are paying for something they don't get, it's going to make them .

e: 23 states is almost 50 senators. (I realize it's not that simple.)

Right, I get that. But Republicans are generally smarter about shielding their own from any possible damaging effects from their policies. But this is straight up fucking over their own people in their own states.

[Kara]

I don't really believe that.

[Human Snorenado]

House members used to, yeah, but that was back when earmarks were a thing. Now they can't even do that, and most of them are too crazy to care. Senators generally don't give a fuck.

Basically, as long as they look like they're trying to stop TEH SOCIALIZM then their idiot constituents are cool.

[Mupepe]

Plus who is going to tell their constituents that they're getting boned?  Not the politicians because they let it happen.  Not Fox News because that'd be fair journalism.  Anything else would be the librul media and it's skewed.

[Phoenix Dark]

Wyoming signed up for the Medicaid expansion last week. If the most conservative/whitest state in the nation can do it, anyone can. Except Texas, because "fuck brown people" is too strong of a platform.

waste the opportunity to expand healthcare to your constituents with the feds eating 100% of the bill for three years because you're butthurt over Obummer, brehs

[Joe Molotov]

They buttdevastated.

[Great Rumbler]

I wish Obummer would abolish the 22nd amendment and win a third term just to see people's heads explode like that guy in Scanners.

[Oblivion]

Well you guys gotta remember. Even when Republicans were all backing Paul Ryan's idea of turning medicare into a coupon program, they shielded current beneficiaries by making sure their cuts would only effect those 55 and younger. You would think the idea of red states subsidizing health care mooching for blue states would be something they'd be raising hell about.

[Mupepe]

Its too complicated to put into a 3 word zinger for their campaigns