US Politics Thread |OT| THE DARKEST TIMELINE

[Great Rumbler]

I think white people are the only racial group that are bored of themselves. Not much pride or self-loathing.

[brob]

https://pbs.twimg.com/tweet_video/CMuRsI3UkAASsBL.mp4

 some enterprising borean makes a :shrug out of this please

[Kara]

You were born in a racist, prejudiced world and unless you think dopey stuff like "nature not nurture" you have to accept that you will always have some level of prejudice that you can't excise out of yourself as a result of that. This is the true importance of teh kulturkampf-Zzz, creating the conditions wherein prejudiced people like us don't have to exist, not necessarily "fixing" the present.

Just think, there are children now who will always think it's normal for a Marxist Muslim dictator born in Kenya to be president. I will never be able to think that I didn't cross over some invisible boundary wrt that.

[Shadow Mod]

Oh god Hillary as prez is going to be awful.

I'd prefer either Joe Biden or Bernie Sanders. I guess Biden is more realistic. Honestly any random Democrat would be better than Hillary.

[Phoenix Dark]

-I don't support banning any particular guns or ammo. Illegal guns and straw purchases strike me as the far bigger problem
-I think liberals are marching into some pretty idiotic territory with identity politics insularity/extremism
-I'm not an environmentalist and don't really care about global warming. Shout outs to ToxicAdam
-While I don't say "no homo" I am guilty of instead saying "no Capote," or "no Hofmo" when conversing with Karakand types
-I'm not comfortable with abortions after the first trimester either but ultimately can't imagine inserting myself into what is a pretty personal, heart wrenching decision some women have to make. It's her choice.
-I find Black Lives Matter to be asinine, too emotional, and not particular effective

[Van Cruncheon]

-I don't support banning any particular guns or ammo. Illegal guns and straw purchases strike me as the far bigger problem
-I think liberals are marching into some pretty idiotic territory with identity politics insularity/extremism
-I'm not an environmentalist and don't really care about global warming. Shout outs to ToxicAdam
-While I don't say "no homo" I am guilty of instead saying "no Capote," or "no Hofmo" when conversing with Karakand types
-I'm not comfortable with abortions after the first trimester either but ultimately can't imagine inserting myself into what is a pretty personal, heart wrenching decision some women have to make. It's her choice.
-I find Black Lives Matter to be asinine, too emotional, and not particular effective

[Shadow Mod]

About the only things I'm pretty hardline on these days are

- Die with Dignity should be in all of the states.
- Serial rapists need to be in prison for life and the statute of limitations needs to fucking go.

[brob]

identity politics are a dead-end, Irigaray will prevail

[Van Cruncheon]

yeah, i'm a fuckin' nazi when it comes to rapists and pedophiles. in the case of the latter, i understand that it probably *is* a severe psychological or even neurological issue, but i'm not terribly forgiving of sociopaths, either. sorry, some lives are too toxic.

[Phoenix Dark]

I also have a crush on Kristi Noem and would pretend to be a black conservative to get the job done

[Steve Contra]

- It's sadly too late for meaningful gun reform, but I think some of America's dumbest people are people who can't see that there is a problem.
- Identity politics are funny because suddenly white dudes are realizing that lots of people don't like them and haven't for a long time.  hence the Republican party.
- I'm an obnoxious environmentalist even more so thanks to my wife
- I'm so far left on abortions I make most of my effete bay area liberal friends uncomfortable when I discuss it, so I don't anymore.
- Bernie Sanders is an unelectable novelty candidate for upscale bumper sticker white liberals.

[Van Cruncheon]

it's okay; i'd hatebang s.e. cupp.

[Shadow Mod]

yeah, i'm a fuckin' nazi when it comes to rapists and pedophiles. in the case of the latter, i understand that it probably *is* a severe psychological or even neurological issue, but i'm not terribly forgiving of sociopaths, either. sorry, some lives are too toxic.

I just feel like rapists embody the point of prison, you have a population of people who will hurt others and they need to be confined to a place where they can't get at victims. Unfortunately our current prison system still has a shit ton of rape itself which fucks up the point.

[Phoenix Dark]

Can't wait until Bernie Sanders is doing infomercials for purified water bottles in a few years

[Van Cruncheon]

i'm good with identity politics in general, but the more rarified it becomes ("check your neurotypical privilege"; "i may have been born a human but my identity is a trisexual dragon wolf") or the more intersectional issues ("i'm gay and trans but i hate lgbt because they won't accept my diaper fetish and my pony identification") pile on the more i go from to

[Steve Contra]

The only thing I think I can still get violently angry about now is union busting.  My wife has had to drag me out of conversations before.

[Van Cruncheon]

delusional mra shit still sets me off

[Steve Contra]

I've never met one in real life, but I've met plenty of smug white guys who have re-imagined the history of America so that unions didn't coincide with our best years.

[Phoenix Dark]

The only thing I think I can still get violently angry about now is union busting.  My wife has had to drag me out of conversations before.

I'm all for busting police and teacher unions.

[Steve Contra]

I can't imagine what education will look like divorced from unions.  Doubtful you could even find people in places like LA or Oakland.

[Shadow Mod]

Just had a conversation today with a Walgreens employee, friend of my mom, who's been there 25 years and this week, since either buying a company or being acquired by one, they're docking everyone's pay. Her pay will go down by 3 bucks an hour and her hours will probably be cut. And I'm just like  . The coverages and protections my mom got during her employment from Safeway is shit that is so well beyond what you can hope for these days, it depresses her.

[Van Cruncheon]

The only thing I think I can still get violently angry about now is union busting.  My wife has had to drag me out of conversations before.

I'm all for busting police and teacher unions.

our bromance is over 

[CatsCatsCats]

- I'm supporting Bernie Sanders
- Pro decriminalization/regulation of all drugs
- Think collecting possessions in a McMansion makes you an asshole
- think prison should only be for those who are a threat to the rest of society, and other than physical segregation from society, conditions should be within societal norms.
- felons should have voting rights
- pro union
- anti-profit in utilities
- pro wealth redistribution
- pro world government

Let the jimmies rustle

[Van Cruncheon]

that said, police unions are problematic due to their anti-progressive agenda and general fascist ethos.

but teacher's unions? fuck yo' homeschooled mouf

[Himu]

- Assisted suicide should be legal, full stop.
- Abortion should be legal regardless of what period the pregnancy is at.
- Just because you're liberal, doesn't mean you're not racist. Just because you're a white liberal does not change that you are white.
- It should be really, really hard for the average person to get guns unless you're a farmer and need it to protect your stock. America should follow Australia's lead and make all guns near illegal except in specific circumstances. Which will never happen.
- Take guns away from the police. The only thing they need is a baton and pepper spray.
- The death penalty should be abolished nationwide.
- All drugs should be legal.
- In my mind, capitalism is inherently evil. A lot of liberals think that if you just slightly make things more equal, it'll be okay but nope, they'll always try to usurp that loss power back.
- Military spending be cut in half and put into education.
- Black and Native Americans deserve our reparations.
- Ideally, if it were possible, I want a nation of those affected by the Trans-Atlantic slave trade (American blacks, Afro Latinx brothers and sisters in Haiti, Cuba, Brazil;etc.) along with Native Americans and other displaced races to have our own country. The Jews got Israel. I want our own country.
- If you are a Black American you should never forget that America is not actually your home.

[Phoenix Dark]

Nah throw them in the bushes. Defending bad teachers that systematically fail generations of kids, specifically minorities.

[Van Cruncheon]

himu

that was better summons for THE TWEE RAGE OF JAYDUBYA than i mustered

[Shadow Mod]

So like my mom had

-great health benefits that umbrella'd over me and my dad
-couldn't be demoted without a legit reason
-couldn't have reduced pay without a legit reason
-guaranteed 40 hours
-paid sick leave up to several days
-3 weeks vacation

and she retired early because they had an 80 rule where if your years working (forgot the minimum years you had to work though) + your age was over 80 then you could retire.

I doubt you can get that all that crap anymore working in retail. But you get that shit with a real union.

[Himu]

-I find Black Lives Matter to be asinine, too emotional, and not particular effective

 

[Himu]

Oh, and college should be free.

[Shadow Mod]

Did you know the UC system was instituted as a tuition free college education for California residents. 

[Phoenix Dark]

I like the community college plan. Michigan has some really good CCs.

[Shadow Mod]

Also you need strong unions with union reps who aren't sellouts because a lot of UFCW shit went down because reps were getting paid off with cars and other gifts.

[Kara]

I find industrial unionism tolerable but craft unionism can take a hike. That the AFL-CIO ended up functioning as CIA bagmen in Latin America as part of their broad anti-left mandate during the Cold War was the institution working as intended, not an aberration, to say nothing of the institutional racism it abetted here at home.

hmu Steve.

[Mr. Gundam]

I can't imagine what education will look like divorced from unions.  Doubtful you could even find people in places like LA or Oakland.

As a member of one, I'd be the first to say that that there terrible things about teahers unions. Good young teachers get RIFF'd while shitty old teachers never go away. Ugh.

I'd also be the first to say that things would be worse without them. I haven't had a COLA in years. I can't imagine how shitty things would be if the state government was allowed to fuck us more than they already do.

[Shadow Mod]

I find industrial unionism tolerable but craft unionism can take a hike. That the AFL-CIO ended up functioning as CIA bagmen in Latin America as part of their broad anti-left mandate during the Cold War was the institution working as intended, not an aberration, to say nothing of the institutional racism it abetted here at home.

hmu Steve.

My grandparents were investigated by the FBI and kicked out of campus housing for not signing Loyalty Oaths while they were working for UC Berkeley.

 

[Kara]

Devo-chan's impeccable proletarian heritage.

[Shadow Mod]

Devo-chan's impeccable proletarian heritage.

Paternal grandparents wouldn't sign loyalty oaths. Mom was in the FSM and went to Civil Rights and Fair Housing Rallies. 

[thisismyusername]

I like the community college plan. Michigan has some really good CCs.

Community College plan is nice, but with how much "YOU NEED A COLLEGE DEGREE!!!!" is thrown at people: People should have a full ride University and Community Colleges paid-for by tax payers. The only time it isn't is if you're getting a D-average GPA or below to where you pay for it. Make people have to be "competent"/C average to getting that degree and putting in enough work to get that degree.

[Shadow Mod]

Also some people don't need to gum up college or get a ton of loans just to get a degree so they can land a job that's not complete shit. The jobs you don't need a degree for shouldn't be complete shit.

[jakefromstatefarm]

- i try to be a decent ally but i really don't get "ableism" or other current fringe intersectionalism, largely because i still want to mock furries and spergs

not sure how srs, but this serves as a decent point of departure for me to shill ivory tower academia. wrt disability studies, it provides a useful example of how deviance is defined and policed and normalcy is legitimated. I have a cursory familiarity with the field, limited to the American experience of disability; from what I've gleaned, the field is very adamant that, in the States, modern discourses of and attitudes towards disability aren't calcified until the mid-late 19th, when urban, industrial consumer capitalism entrenches itself in the American identity and in turn privileges certain modes of labor ("efficiency" is the chief buzzword here). Manual labor as capital is institutionalized in tandem with the rise of modern medicine*, spawning the medical understanding of disability, which, as disability studies would argue, sees** abnormalcy as an immutable problem to be corrected, rather than accommodated. This is the context that the term "ableism" is brought up, it represents the historical baggage that results in the literal devaluing of a human being and the discourses that serve to make public life more than just physically inaccessible for many disabled Americans.


*I would also throw in the state's drive for cultural homogenization through public institutions like education, and its drive for quantification/organization of its resources through mandatory identification documents which, among other things, reify the location of deviance on the individual.

**this is a deliberate choice of words, 'spectacle' and 'ocularcentrism' are key themes within the literature that serve to reinforce norms of power

for the uninitiated: http://www.ces.uc.pt/projectos/intimidade/media/Seing%20the%20disabled_visual%20rhetorics%20of%20disability%20in%20popular%20photography.pdf

- Identity politics are funny because suddenly white dudes are realizing that lots of people don't like them and haven't for a long time.  hence the Republican party.

one of my profs argued that white masculinity has always been in crisis in American society because it's always been the chief beneficiary of institutionalized privilege. 30-something Caucasian male from the Bible Belt, go figure

[Van Cruncheon]

huh, interesting. the problem is that while i've been arguing for neurodiversity and support for better psychological accomodations and services at work,  run-of-the-mill opportunistic spergs with anxiety disorders have been claiming the resources which kinda keeps the folks with serious psych issues (folks on the schizoaffective spectrum; severe/bipolar depression et al) from speaking up. maybe it's a tech thing. also, i have no idea where to draw an initial line, or where it should EVEN be drawn. i mean, at the end of the day: psych issues are pretty much the norm, at least in the tech sector. i don't like being pressured to "rank" disorders, but come ON.

[Van Cruncheon]

also, i've noticed, again in the gentrified tech sector, that a loss of traditional white cis patriarchal privilege means a bit of a rush from said cishet crackers to claim other "privileges" around ableist and neurodiversity issues. ("you can't fire me! i have chronic obesity and social anxiety disorder!") might not be an ACTUAL thing overall, but HUH.

[Kara]

Need-based aid will always be a target for opportunists so long as the conditions that make aid necessary exist. We can accept that or expend resources inefficiently empowering disciplinarians to met out our preconceived notions of need to make our Foucauldian dreams a reality.

[Himu]

Did you know the UC system was instituted as a tuition free college education for California residents. 

This should be the case in general. UT has insane tuition rates or I would have went for a master degree in film ages ago.

[Great Rumbler]

* No act that doesn't have a victim which is another human being should ever be illegal.

[Himu]

I like the community college plan. Michigan has some really good CCs.

Community College plan is nice, but with how much "YOU NEED A COLLEGE DEGREE!!!!" is thrown at people: People should have a full ride University and Community Colleges paid-for by tax payers. The only time it isn't is if you're getting a D-average GPA or below to where you pay for it. Make people have to be "competent"/C average to getting that degree and putting in enough work to get that degree.

Given the "YOU NEED A COLLEGE DEGREE!!!" going around, that's even more reason to make college the new high school and just make it free.

 

[Himu]

So like my mom had

-great health benefits that umbrella'd over me and my dad
-couldn't be demoted without a legit reason
-couldn't have reduced pay without a legit reason
-guaranteed 40 hours
-paid sick leave up to several days
-3 weeks vacation

and she retired early because they had an 80 rule where if your years working (forgot the minimum years you had to work though) + your age was over 80 then you could retire.

I doubt you can get that all that crap anymore working in retail. But you get that shit with a real union.

Let me continue with this. There's all of what I said on the last page.

But, we also need:

- 3-4 guaranteed weeks of vacation. This should be national law. The American "phht vacation? hard work is my vacation " needs to die. It's killing us.
- 6 months to a year of maternity OR paternity (gender equality ) leave without being fired for it.
- 20 dollars per hour is where minimum wage SHOULD be at (commence Jaydub heaving) but 15 is a good concession. Make it nationwide.
- All people under federal law should be guaranteed rights from being fired due to gender, race, sexual orientation, gender identity, or disability.

[Phoenix Dark]

* No act that doesn't have a victim which is another human being should ever be illegal.

[Himu]

- Just because Bernie Sanders marched with MLK doesn't mean he gives a shit about race, white lib friends. Fred Phelps was a civil rights activist. Bernie doesn't give a shit about race, and deserves to have been heckled by BLM protesters for his apathy and general generic "it's an economic problem, not a race problem" BROgressive/BROcialist stink. Bernie's response to BLM protesters essentially being,"I WON'T APOLOGIZE" rather than realizing people just want it addressed shows even further away from the movement this man is. And this is someone who plans on voting for him.

- Voting should be a holiday, and on for three days, preferably on a weekend (Friday, Saturday, Sunday). Felons should also have the ability to vote.

[Kara]

I'm really trying to think of something to throw out here to contribute that isn't some no1curr doctrinal matter or wouldn't  require me to explain the overarching framework through which I conceptualize things.

Uhhhhhhhh, states (as in the political subdivision of the United States, not the entity that occupies the monopoly on force benji-kun ) and further sovereign subdivisions are dumb, inefficient, and only really necessary because some of us want to LARP the Massachusetts Bay Colony and some of us want to LARP Europe of the 70s and these are incompatible role playing milieux. If you have no background in interstate commerce you really have no idea what I'm talking about.

[Shadow Mod]

Says the dude who is in socal and lives off the water Cali steals from its other parts.

 

[Phoenix Dark]

- Just because Bernie Sanders marched with MLK doesn't mean he gives a shit about race, white lib friends. Fred Phelps was a civil rights activist. Bernie doesn't give a shit about race, and deserves to have been heckled by BLM protesters for his apathy and general generic "it's an economic problem, not a race problem" BROgressive/BROcialist stink. Bernie's response to BLM protesters essentially being,"I WON'T APOLOGIZE" rather than realizing people just want it addressed shows even further away from the movement this man is. And this is someone who plans on voting for him.

- Voting should be a holiday, and on for three days, preferably on a weekend (Friday, Saturday, Sunday). Felons should also have the ability to vote.

Sanders has a better record on civil rights issues than any candidate you'll start stanning in the next few months. Real talk. I preface this by saying I'm not a Sanders supporter (although I'll vote for him in the primary) but the treatment he's had to deal baffles me.

The dominant problem the black community faces is socioeconomic. Police brutality and the epidemic of violence in inner cities are symptoms of that - they are not the main problem. Sanders has been talking about that for quite some time. I'm not going to fault him for being an inarticulate fringe candidate. The record speaks for itself.

[Himu]

I'm really trying to think of something to throw out here to contribute that isn't some no1curr doctrinal matter or wouldn't  require me to explain the overarching framework through which I conceptualize things.

Uhhhhhhhh, states (as in the political subdivision of the United States, not the entity that occupies the monopoly on force benji-kun ) and further sovereign subdivisions are dumb, inefficient, and only really necessary because some of us want to LARP the Massachusetts Bay Colony and some of us want to LARP Europe of the 70s and these are incompatible role playing milieux. If you have no background in interstate commerce you really have no idea what I'm talking about.

All you have to do is talk about issues rather than structure. You cannot change structure without tackling issues.

[Kara]

Says the dude who is in socal and lives off the water Cali steals from its other parts.

 

We built those aquedects fair and square. Don't believe Roman Polanski's lies.

[Shadow Mod]

The future Mr. Gittes, the future.

[Himu]

- Just because Bernie Sanders marched with MLK doesn't mean he gives a shit about race, white lib friends. Fred Phelps was a civil rights activist. Bernie doesn't give a shit about race, and deserves to have been heckled by BLM protesters for his apathy and general generic "it's an economic problem, not a race problem" BROgressive/BROcialist stink. Bernie's response to BLM protesters essentially being,"I WON'T APOLOGIZE" rather than realizing people just want it addressed shows even further away from the movement this man is. And this is someone who plans on voting for him.

- Voting should be a holiday, and on for three days, preferably on a weekend (Friday, Saturday, Sunday). Felons should also have the ability to vote.

Sanders has a better record on civil rights issues than any candidate you'll start stanning in the next few months. Real talk. I preface this by saying I'm not a Sanders supporter (although I'll vote for him in the primary) but the treatment he's had to deal baffles me.

The dominant problem the black community faces is socioeconomic. Police brutality and the epidemic of violence in inner cities are symptoms of that - they are not the main problem. Sanders has been talking about that for quite some time. I'm not going to fault him for being an inarticulate fringe candidate. The record speaks for itself.

Sanders' is the one targeted for the exact reasons you just said: his record. Keep in mind, Republicans have also been targeted, but Sanders is especially targeted because of his record, meaning he's the most likely to do something about it. Ultimately, Bernie is a politician and politicians do not take up issues until they are prodded. Before, Bernie barely spoke of racial inequality or that police are specifically targeting our communities. You say that it's a socio-economical problem when many of these people killed in the past year, were not poor. You honestly sound like a college aged cac with that mess, sorry. What happened after they confronted Bernie? He has made an actual stance on the issue.

What does protesting Republicans do exactly? They don't give a fuck about us. Hilary? Her record is clear, but more than that, how could anyone hope to interrupt her when she has Blackwater security? Bernie Sanders, being the operating on a progressive platform (despite not even talking about the past years racial events) is the prime candidate and keep the discussion moving. Has it done that? Yes, it has. Now Bernie is meeting with them to talk about policy.

Do you really expect people to want to tackle poverty and stuff when people who are supposed to protect us are killing us? Really? You cannot be this naive or silly. You expect people to protest being poor when people justify killing us for being black? Out of here with that mess.

Between this and the "why is Janelle pro-black now?" you are looking mad suspect. 

[Shadow Mod]

vularai inspired me to make some classic movie smileys

:smugrichbastard

[Himu]

People are dying and this boy talking about shutting up, take it, and just hope it's rectified through economic changes despite specific decades like the 80's having good economies and things still being bad for people. Like fixing the economy is a one way ticket to ending white supremacy. Talking about "policing black people is a symptom of socio-economical circumstance" while ignoring that America's police were initially slave catchers, and this relationship has lasted over 150 years.

Coming up with this "why don't you blow on it?" mess when someone's been shot through the stomach.

[Kara]

All you have to do is talk about issues rather than structure. You cannot change structure without tackling issues.

I really don't want to get into a Critical Theory 101 discussion, but, for example, I can't say I was surprised that Drinky--who denied that a zygote was a person the record will show--copped to being uncomfortable with abortion past the first trimester. Our philosophical frameworks inform our positions on issues and simply stating positions without providing that framework up front requires other people to figure out what that framework is exactly, which can be a rather messy process.