Author Topic: US Politics Thread |OT| THE DARKEST TIMELINE  (Read 2656045 times)

0 Members and 13 Guests are viewing this topic.

Great Rumbler

  • Dab on the sinners
  • Global Moderator
Re: Donald Trump Destroys Beloved American Political Dynasty |OT| Sad!
« Reply #13980 on: February 24, 2016, 10:24:21 AM »
Interestingly enough, he got close to 1/2 of all of the Hispanic caucus voters.

Apparently, the percentage of Nevada Hispanics that are Republican is very, very low.
dog

Rufus

  • 🙈🙉🙊
  • Senior Member
Re: Donald Trump Destroys Beloved American Political Dynasty |OT| Sad!
« Reply #13981 on: February 24, 2016, 12:41:49 PM »
I have family members - children of currently illegal immigrants - that support the anti immigration nonsense rhetoric.

Classic example of the 'fuck you I got mine' mentality

Or in this case 'fuck you I got in' :doge
My mother is the same. Drives me up the wall.

studyguy

  • Senior Member
Re: Donald Trump Destroys Beloved American Political Dynasty |OT| Sad!
« Reply #13982 on: February 24, 2016, 01:15:02 PM »
That Fox News exit poll has people legit shook somehow without looking at the numbers behind it.
Good lord people treating it like the dude just won a majority of Latino votes.  ::)

We're never going to have an election nearly as entertaining as this one, lawd.
pause

Brehvolution

  • Until at last, I threw down my enemy and smote his ruin upon the mountainside.
  • Senior Member
Re: Donald Trump Destroys Beloved American Political Dynasty |OT| Sad!
« Reply #13983 on: February 24, 2016, 01:52:37 PM »
I'm legitimately terrified now.  He's going to win.

I wouldn't be. I would be if it was cruz. I still think trump gets smoked by hillary in the debates.
©ZH

Sausage

  • Member
Re: Donald Trump Destroys Beloved American Political Dynasty |OT| Sad!
« Reply #13984 on: February 24, 2016, 02:20:06 PM »
Trump is a master debator. The only thing anybody ever remembers from debates are the little soundbites which is all Trump really does anyways.

studyguy

  • Senior Member
Re: Donald Trump Destroys Beloved American Political Dynasty |OT| Sad!
« Reply #13985 on: February 24, 2016, 05:00:16 PM »
Feel like at the very least we're going to end up looking at Bernie's campaign post mortem as something new in terms of mobilizing youth votes on social media in a huge way. It's interesting to watch things unfold that normally happen every year with regular campaigns but out online where basically everyone can watch what's going down (for better or worse depending on how annoyed you get about them pushing him everywhere).

It feels pretty novel to me at least whereas before you'd see campaigns hitting you this hard in print, on tv, on radio or fucking your physical mailbox in the ass with junk (showed interest in a campaign once and it was RIP my mailbox ever since come time to vote on basically anything).

I'd imagine a lot of his base are basically going to walk off all #sadboyz in the end, but those that stick around will probably be due to the campaign having lit some fire up their ass to fix things next time. Dude has probably done a lot of good for the dem base even if many feel #bern'd by the system coming out of an inevitable loss.
spoiler (click to show/hide)
Fuck Bernie puns btw  :doge
[close]
« Last Edit: February 24, 2016, 05:12:26 PM by studyguy »
pause

Trent Dole

  • the sharpest tool in the shed
  • Senior Member
Re: Donald Trump Destroys Beloved American Political Dynasty |OT| Sad!
« Reply #13986 on: February 24, 2016, 07:03:17 PM »
Bernie is best grill :uguu
But I'll still vote Hillary to keep out whatever shitlord gets the opposing parties nomination. :punch
Hi

brawndolicious

  • Nylonhilist
  • Senior Member
Re: Donald Trump Destroys Beloved American Political Dynasty |OT| Sad!
« Reply #13987 on: February 24, 2016, 07:04:20 PM »
I remember in the mid-2000's I was arguing with friends about 9/11 conspiracies, when I realized I always did know a few crazy, stupid people. People that were my friends but turned out to be angry, gullible, and biased.

And now Trump is like white 9/11.

Oblivion

  • Senior Member
Re: Donald Trump Destroys Beloved American Political Dynasty |OT| Sad!
« Reply #13988 on: February 24, 2016, 08:31:57 PM »
I have family members - children of currently illegal immigrants - that support the anti immigration nonsense rhetoric.

Classic example of the 'fuck you I got mine' mentality

Or in this case 'fuck you I got in' :doge

No, it's far more incoherent as Trump said he plans on deporting American born children of illegals as well.  :doge

VomKriege

  • Do the moron
  • Senior Member
Re: Donald Trump Destroys Beloved American Political Dynasty |OT| Sad!
« Reply #13989 on: February 25, 2016, 04:16:58 AM »
Feel like at the very least we're going to end up looking at Bernie's campaign post mortem as something new in terms of mobilizing youth votes on social media in a huge way. It's interesting to watch things unfold that normally happen every year with regular campaigns but out online where basically everyone can watch what's going down (for better or worse depending on how annoyed you get about them pushing him everywhere).

It feels pretty novel to me at least whereas before you'd see campaigns hitting you this hard in print, on tv, on radio or fucking your physical mailbox in the ass with junk (showed interest in a campaign once and it was RIP my mailbox ever since come time to vote on basically anything).

I'd imagine a lot of his base are basically going to walk off all #sadboyz in the end, but those that stick around will probably be due to the campaign having lit some fire up their ass to fix things next time. Dude has probably done a lot of good for the dem base even if many feel #bern'd by the system coming out of an inevitable loss.
spoiler (click to show/hide)
Fuck Bernie puns btw  :doge
[close]



spoiler (click to show/hide)
Less of a young vote maybe ?
[close]
ὕβρις

Phoenix Dark

  • I got no game it's just some bitches understand my story
  • Senior Member
Re: Donald Trump Destroys Beloved American Political Dynasty |OT| Sad!
« Reply #13990 on: February 25, 2016, 10:37:33 AM »
Is it new though? Obama mobilized young people online too. The difference is that his young people actually came out to vote in mass whereas Sanders has yet to display the revolution he talks about. That revolution happened in 2008 bros.

Sanders is just another Ron Paul who inspired fervent excitement among a group of people with a large presence online. I used to think libertarianism was the future of the GOP, just as various think pieces now claim Sanders' ideas are the future of the democrat party. But now it looks like the GOP is heading for the same neoconservative foreign policy, corporate welfare, and authoritarianism as usual. Paul's influence now looks like it was just to convince future Trump supporters to sign up for Facebook.
010

Re: Donald Trump Destroys Beloved American Political Dynasty |OT| Sad!
« Reply #13991 on: February 25, 2016, 10:59:54 AM »
To me, almost nothing about the GOP looks even close to a pre-Ron Paul "as usual."

Mandark

  • Icon
Re: Donald Trump Destroys Beloved American Political Dynasty |OT| Sad!
« Reply #13992 on: February 25, 2016, 11:14:31 AM »
In terms of targeting people susceptible to investment scams, Paul certainly seemed to pave the way for Trump and Carson.

PD's right though.  Obama winning twice with that coalition did more to move Hillary to the left than everything the Sanders campaign has done, and I don't expect the Sanders campaign to translate into a meaningful, sustained movement to shift the US to Scandinavian-style social democracy.

I do wonder if the free college thing will stick in some form.  With college seeming more and more of a requirement for a decent-paying career path, and involving more and more student debt, you'd expect young people to vote their interests, similar to old folks protecting SS and Medicare.

Mandark

  • Icon
Re: Donald Trump Destroys Beloved American Political Dynasty |OT| Sad!
« Reply #13993 on: February 25, 2016, 11:24:22 AM »
To me, almost nothing about the GOP looks even close to a pre-Ron Paul "as usual."

How so?  To me it feels like the orientation of the party on taxes, regulation, social insurance, crime, and cultural issues is roughly the same as it was 15 years ago.  Heck, 30 years ago.  To the degree that it's shifted, it doesn't seem to be towards the areas where Paul challenged the orthodoxy.

Joe Molotov

  • I'm much more humble than you would understand.
  • Administrator
Re: Donald Trump Destroys Beloved American Political Dynasty |OT| Sad!
« Reply #13994 on: February 25, 2016, 11:28:09 AM »
This primary just doesn't stop.

©@©™

Re: Donald Trump Destroys Beloved American Political Dynasty |OT| Sad!
« Reply #13995 on: February 25, 2016, 11:33:46 AM »
Are we acting like Donald Trump hasn't won three straight primaries and a Bush didn't just embarrassingly drop out of the race? I think Ron Paul's popularity signaled the demise of the traditional GOP, empowered the Tea Party, and led to the viability of Cruz and Trump to take over the party. Am I way off here? I don't have much political memory of Newt's Contract on America, so maybe this is cyclical and I don't realize it.

tiesto

  • ルカルカ★ナイトフィーバー
  • Senior Member
Re: Donald Trump Destroys Beloved American Political Dynasty |OT| Sad!
« Reply #13996 on: February 25, 2016, 11:48:43 AM »
Is it new though? Obama mobilized young people online too. The difference is that his young people actually came out to vote in mass whereas Sanders has yet to display the revolution he talks about. That revolution happened in 2008 bros.

Sanders is just another Ron Paul who inspired fervent excitement among a group of people with a large presence online. I used to think libertarianism was the future of the GOP, just as various think pieces now claim Sanders' ideas are the future of the democrat party. But now it looks like the GOP is heading for the same neoconservative foreign policy, corporate welfare, and authoritarianism as usual. Paul's influence now looks like it was just to convince future Trump supporters to sign up for Facebook.

Sanders is actually getting his fair share of primary votes, though... Ron Paul supporters were loud but that never amounted to anything in the primaries.

In terms of targeting people susceptible to investment scams, Paul certainly seemed to pave the way for Trump and Carson.

Heh, the biggest Paul supporters I know are also very active in Amway...
^_^

Mupepe

  • Icon
Re: Donald Trump Destroys Beloved American Political Dynasty |OT| Sad!
« Reply #13997 on: February 25, 2016, 12:11:14 PM »
In terms of targeting people susceptible to investment scams, Paul certainly seemed to pave the way for Trump and Carson.

PD's right though.  Obama winning twice with that coalition did more to move Hillary to the left than everything the Sanders campaign has done, and I don't expect the Sanders campaign to translate into a meaningful, sustained movement to shift the US to Scandinavian-style social democracy.

I do wonder if the free college thing will stick in some form.  With college seeming more and more of a requirement for a decent-paying career path, and involving more and more student debt, you'd expect young people to vote their interests, similar to old folks protecting SS and Medicare.
Regarding free college, I don't see anything happening without student loan debt also being forgiven.  There's too many people who have the attitude of "I paid for mine (most mean their parents paid) so others should too."  That's what I hear most from people in their mid and early 20's.

benjipwns

  • your bright ideas always burn me
  • Senior Member
Re: Donald Trump Destroys Beloved American Political Dynasty |OT| Sad!
« Reply #13998 on: February 25, 2016, 12:43:44 PM »
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/how-america-made-donald-trump-unstoppable-20160224

Quote
But Trump's thin-skinned dealings with reporters didn't fully explain the media's efforts to prop up his opponents. We've long been engaged in our own version of the high school put-down game, battering nerds and outsiders like Ron Paul and Dennis Kucinich while elevating "electable," party-approved candidates like John McCain and John Kerry.

Thus it was no surprise that after Iowa, columnists tried to sell the country on the loathsome "Marcomentum" narrative, a paean to the good old days when reporters got to tell the public who was hot and who wasn't – the days of the "Straight Talk Express," "Joementum," etc.

"Marco Rubio Was the Real Winner in Iowa," blared CNN. "Marco Rubio's Iowa Mojo," chimed in Politico. "Forget Ted Cruz, Marco Rubio Is the Real Winner of the Iowa Caucuses," agreed Vanity Fair.

Rubio, we were told, had zoomed to the front of the "establishment lane" in timely enough fashion to stop Trump. Of course, in the real world, nobody cares about what happens in the "establishment lane" except other journalists. But even the other candidates seemed to believe the narrative. Ohio Gov. John Kasich staggered out of Iowa in eighth place and was finishing up his 90th lonely appearance in New Hampshire when Boston-based reporters caught up to him.

"If we get smoked up there, I'm going back to Ohio," he lamented. Kasich in person puts on a brave face, but he also frequently rolls his eyes in an expression of ostentatious misanthropy that says, "I can't believe I'm losing to these idiots."

But then Rubio went onstage at St. Anselm College in the eighth GOP debate and blew himself up. Within just a few minutes of a vicious exchange with haran​guing now-former candidate Chris Christie, he twice delivered the exact same canned 25-second spiel about how Barack Obama "knows exactly what he's doing."

Rubio's face-plant brilliantly reprised Sir Ian Holm's performance in Alien, as a malfunctioning, disembodied robot head stammering, "I admire its purity," while covered in milky android goo. It was everything we hate about scripted mannequin candidates captured in a brief crack in the political façade.
Quote
Trump's speeches are never scripted, never exactly the same twice. Instead he just riffs and feels his way through crowds. He's no orator – as anyone who's read his books knows, he's not really into words, especially long ones – but he has an undeniable talent for commanding a room.

Today, knowing the debate news is in the air, he makes sure to plunge a finger into Rubio's wound, mocking candidates who need scripts.

"Honestly, I don't have any teleprompters, I don't have a speech I'm reading to you," Trump says. Then he switches into a nasal, weenie-politician voice, and imitates someone reading tiny text from a crib sheet: "Ladies and gentlemen, it's so nice to be here in New Hampshire, please vote for me or I'll never speak to you again ... "

The crowd laughs. Trump also makes sure to point a finger at the omnipresent Giant Media Throng.

"See all those cameras back there?" he says. "They've never driven so far to a location."

The crowd turns to gape and sneer at the hated press contingent, which seems glad to be behind a rope. Earlier, Trump had bragged about how these same reporters had begrudgingly admitted that he'd won the St. Anselm debate. "They hate it, but they gave me very high grades."

It's simple transitive-property rhetoric, and it works. The press went gaga for Rubio after Iowa because – why? Because he's an unthreatening, blow-dried, cliché-spouting, dial-surveying phony of the type campaign journalists always approve of.

And when Rubio gets exposed in the debate as a talking haircut, a political Speak n' Spell, suddenly the throng of journalists who spent the past two weeks trying to sell America on "Marcomentum" and the all-important "establishment lane" looks very guilty indeed. Voters were supposed to take this seriously?

Trump knows the public sees through all of this, grasps the press's role in it and rightly hates us all. When so many Trump supporters point to his stomping of the carpetbagging snobs in the national media as the main reason they're going to vote for him, it should tell us in the press something profound about how much people think we suck.

Jay Matthews, a Plymouth native with a long beard and a Trump sign, cites Trump's press beat-downs as the first reason he's voting Donald.

"He's gonna be his own man," he says. "He's proving that now with how he's getting all the media. He's paying nothing and getting all the coverage. He's not paying one dime."
Quote
Unions have been abused so much by both parties in the past decades that even mentioning themes union members care about instantly grabs the attention of workers. That's true even when it comes from Donald Trump, a man who kicked off the fourth GOP debate saying "wages [are] too high" and who had the guts to tell the Detroit News that Michigan autoworkers make too much money.

You will find union members scattered at almost all of Trump's speeches. And there have been rumors of unions nationally considering endorsing Trump. SEIU president Mary Kay Henry even admitted in January that Trump appeals to members because of the "terrible anxiety" they feel about jobs.

"I know guys, union guys, who talk about Trump," says Rand Wilson, an activist from the Labor for Bernie organization. "I try to tell them about Sanders, and they don't know who he is. Or they've just heard he's a socialist. Trump they've heard of."

This is part of a gigantic subplot to the Trump story, which is that many of his critiques of the process are the same ones being made by Bernie Sanders.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2016, 12:50:34 PM by benjipwns »

Mandark

  • Icon
Re: Donald Trump Destroys Beloved American Political Dynasty |OT| Sad!
« Reply #13999 on: February 25, 2016, 12:44:54 PM »
Are we acting like Donald Trump hasn't won three straight primaries and a Bush didn't just embarrassingly drop out of the race? I think Ron Paul's popularity signaled the demise of the traditional GOP, empowered the Tea Party, and led to the viability of Cruz and Trump to take over the party. Am I way off here? I don't have much political memory of Newt's Contract on America, so maybe this is cyclical and I don't realize it.

Part of it's cyclical, in that the GOP seems to freak out when a Democrat is president.  Clinton was a moderate, southern, DLC good ol' boy, and they reacted by shutting down the government and then impeaching him after he was re-elected.

It feels like the GOP has lost control of its base somewhat, with the various Tea Party challengers, the problems getting a new Speaker, and various presidential candidacies/book tours getting more support than they ought to.  Years of being told their politicians are basically traitors will do that, as multiple attempts to pass an immigration compromise the base really doesn't want.  Still, the Tea Party primary challenges mostly died out, and all evidence is that Trump appeals just as much to GOP "moderates," so even that may be overblown.

Like I said earlier, I think the tone's a bit different at this moment (especially if you consider Trump as the current spokesperson) but the general content?  It's still about lower taxes, a government that doesn't interfere with business, a belligerent foreign policy, reduced or privatized social services, and the primacy of traditional white, Christian culture.  The coalition is mostly the same (though even more racially polarized now), the general cultural allegiances and resentments are mostly the same, and the thrust of the policies will be mostly the same.

Mandark

  • Icon
Re: Donald Trump Destroys Beloved American Political Dynasty |OT| Sad!
« Reply #14000 on: February 25, 2016, 12:57:39 PM »
Quote from: matt taibbi
why do the media hate trump?

http://iscap.upenn.edu/


benjipwns

  • your bright ideas always burn me
  • Senior Member
Re: Donald Trump Destroys Beloved American Political Dynasty |OT| Sad!
« Reply #14001 on: February 25, 2016, 12:58:38 PM »
I think it's questionable to talk about a GOP base in the way we understood the Democratic one. There basically wasn't one after FDR, that's how the evangelicals swept in allied with the Reaganites, and once they lost power, you've been left with a kludge that tried to identify around "conservative" and has.

Only it means something different to all of them except maybe lower taxes and pro-America. And probably anti-abortion. And against the liberal anti-American monsters of the Democratic Party of course.

Even "tough" foreign policy means something different when it comes down to details.

benjipwns

  • your bright ideas always burn me
  • Senior Member
Re: Donald Trump Destroys Beloved American Political Dynasty |OT| Sad!
« Reply #14002 on: February 25, 2016, 01:01:56 PM »
Quote
if Bill Clinton is complaining about the "vicious" attacks by the campaign of pathological nice guy Bernie Sanders, it's hard to imagine what will happen once they get hit by the Trumpdozer

Quote from: matt taibbi
why do the media hate trump?

http://iscap.upenn.edu/

(Image removed from quote.)

Quote
Trump isn't the first rich guy to run for office. But he is the first to realize the weakness in the system, which is that the watchdogs in the political media can't resist a car wreck. The more he insults the press, the more they cover him: He's pulling 33 times as much coverage on the major networks as his next-closest GOP competitor, and twice as much as Hillary.

Trump found the flaw in the American Death Star. It doesn't know how to turn the cameras off, even when it's filming its own demise.

Mandark

  • Icon
Re: Donald Trump Destroys Beloved American Political Dynasty |OT| Sad!
« Reply #14003 on: February 25, 2016, 01:07:25 PM »
I think it's questionable to talk about a GOP base in the way we understood the Democratic one. There basically wasn't one after FDR, that's how the evangelicals swept in allied with the Reaganites, and once they lost power, you've been left with a kludge that tried to identify around "conservative" and has.

Only it means something different to all of them except maybe lower taxes and pro-America. And probably anti-abortion. And against the liberal anti-American monsters of the Democratic Party of course.

Even "tough" foreign policy means something different when it comes down to details.

Yeah, when you're competing for 50% of the vote in a bigass country you're gonna patch shit together.  Obv.

You really think the Republican base is more heterogeneous now than the Democratic one, or than major party coalitions traditionally?

benjipwns

  • your bright ideas always burn me
  • Senior Member
Re: Donald Trump Destroys Beloved American Political Dynasty |OT| Sad!
« Reply #14004 on: February 25, 2016, 01:32:56 PM »
Demographically, yes.  :teehee

In terms of internal electoral politics there doesn't seem to be a dominant portion of the coalition in either party as their once was. Other than maybe that both parties have become split more along a false Establishment/anti-Establishment fault line. If you stripped his name off his bio, Jeb would look like a better "outsider" candidate, but he had to go third and with his last name attached so he wasn't able to pull the same con his brother was. Otherwise the last "outsiders" were Clinton, Dukakis, Reagan and Carter. But since 2006 we've seen Obama, Romney, Sanders, Trump/Cruz, all be strong or nominees with "outsider" attacks on The Washington Establishment.

Even the evangelicals have divided along similar lines. Pat Robertson was with Trump the other day. Dobson is with Cruz, Fallwell endorsed Trump, a good chunk were with Carson, etc.

Mandark

  • Icon
Re: Donald Trump Destroys Beloved American Political Dynasty |OT| Sad!
« Reply #14005 on: February 25, 2016, 01:54:08 PM »
At what points were the coalitions significantly more unified/homogeneous than they are now?

studyguy

  • Senior Member
Re: Donald Trump Destroys Beloved American Political Dynasty |OT| Sad!
« Reply #14006 on: February 25, 2016, 02:06:35 PM »
Is it new though? Obama mobilized young people online too. The difference is that his young people actually came out to vote in mass whereas Sanders has yet to display the revolution he talks about. That revolution happened in 2008 bros.

Sanders is just another Ron Paul who inspired fervent excitement among a group of people with a large presence online. I used to think libertarianism was the future of the GOP, just as various think pieces now claim Sanders' ideas are the future of the democrat party. But now it looks like the GOP is heading for the same neoconservative foreign policy, corporate welfare, and authoritarianism as usual. Paul's influence now looks like it was just to convince future Trump supporters to sign up for Facebook.

I think it is, I agree that it's another round of Ron Paul, but all the same the level of organization here looks like a far cry from the rabble that was making the round before. Maybe its just because it seems more centralized, I don't know but the dude clearly had way more momentum than Paul did even if it's still woefully inadequate.

All the same to me, dude was another internet pipe dream.

In terms of targeting people susceptible to investment scams, Paul certainly seemed to pave the way for Trump and Carson.

PD's right though.  Obama winning twice with that coalition did more to move Hillary to the left than everything the Sanders campaign has done, and I don't expect the Sanders campaign to translate into a meaningful, sustained movement to shift the US to Scandinavian-style social democracy.

I do wonder if the free college thing will stick in some form.  With college seeming more and more of a requirement for a decent-paying career path, and involving more and more student debt, you'd expect young people to vote their interests, similar to old folks protecting SS and Medicare.
Regarding free college, I don't see anything happening without student loan debt also being forgiven.  There's too many people who have the attitude of "I paid for mine (most mean their parents paid) so others should too."  That's what I hear most from people in their mid and early 20's.

Expect another round of free bootstraps for all more than anything else.
pause

Phoenix Dark

  • I got no game it's just some bitches understand my story
  • Senior Member
Re: Donald Trump Destroys Beloved American Political Dynasty |OT| Sad!
« Reply #14007 on: February 25, 2016, 02:40:13 PM »
The cyclical nature of this has gotten more extreme, sure. The Contract For America was not just a response to Clinton overreach, it was a response to do-nothing republican congressman who weren't principled (ie extreme) enough. But it didn't take long for those newcomers to basically become the status quo of DC. The Tea Party class of 2010 has remained pretty extremist but all it would take is a republican president for them to return to big government conservative spending. And then in 10 years or so a new batch of even more extremist activists will attack the tea party class for not being principled enough, and the circle continues.

But remember even in 2012 when the base was insane...the establishment still got their guy the nomination pretty easily. If Trump wasn't in the race I could buy the idea of Rubio becoming the nominee after a hard fight with Cruz.

010

benjipwns

  • your bright ideas always burn me
  • Senior Member
Re: Donald Trump Destroys Beloved American Political Dynasty |OT| Sad!
« Reply #14008 on: February 25, 2016, 03:56:17 PM »
At what points were the coalitions significantly more unified/homogeneous than they are now?
I'd say the Republican coalitions locked arms pretty tight for 2002-2004.

Mandark

  • Icon
Re: Donald Trump Destroys Beloved American Political Dynasty |OT| Sad!
« Reply #14009 on: February 25, 2016, 04:18:04 PM »
Granted, when you have unified control of the government with a president whose approval ratings are above 60%, there's not going to be much internal strife.  Also, yanno, 9/11.

But you're talking about the GOP not having a "base" in the way the Democrats do, and that there used to be dominant factions within the party.  How do you mean?

Phoenix Dark

  • I got no game it's just some bitches understand my story
  • Senior Member
Re: Donald Trump Destroys Beloved American Political Dynasty |OT| Sad!
« Reply #14010 on: February 25, 2016, 04:36:39 PM »
It's not surprising they held together at the time, even when Bush was unpopular. Unwavering support for your party's president during war time isn't surprising. Kinda funny that all the sniping being done by some on the far right now about Bush's presidency was nowhere be been heard in 2002-2006.
010

benjipwns

  • your bright ideas always burn me
  • Senior Member
Re: Donald Trump Destroys Beloved American Political Dynasty |OT| Sad!
« Reply #14011 on: February 25, 2016, 04:45:29 PM »
I meant the New Deal Coalition, it's how the parties have been analyzed ever since, but I don't think it necessarily was ever a good or meaningful model of political coalitions. The Republican coalition that formed in the 1990s endured for as long as it did in part because it basically split all the issues up and let the factions handle them on their own as the factions were issue-oriented. Democrats have many more factions that are demographically-oriented.

Democrats always produce signs: "Women for Hillary", "Workers for Edwards", "Hispanics for Obama", "One black guy for Bernie!" and so on that identify the internal grouping. The individual factions and groups are as important as the coalition, if not more so. Republicans seem more accepting of an amorphous blob labeled "conservative" or "American values" or some such.

In a way, it can seem as though the two bases are built in opposite manners. Democrats are still a coalition held together by political necessity, Republicans form coalitions almost out of reaction. Trump, Cruz, Tea Party, etc. coalitions are more about what they're against than who they are and what they're ultimately for.

Though I think the anti-abortion faction is the one left in the GOP you can't cross, and arguably the anti-abortion and pro-choice factions as a whole almost alone decide party for whites these days.

Syph

  • Senior Member
Re: Donald Trump Destroys Beloved American Political Dynasty |OT| Sad!
« Reply #14012 on: February 25, 2016, 04:46:51 PM »
This primary just doesn't stop.

(Image removed from quote.)
Mitt's correct though. You gotta release those tax records. Wonder if there really is something Trump's hiding.

I think Ron Paul's popularity signaled the demise of the traditional GOP, empowered the Tea Party, and led to the viability of Cruz and Trump to take over the party.
:beli
XO

Phoenix Dark

  • I got no game it's just some bitches understand my story
  • Senior Member
Re: Donald Trump Destroys Beloved American Political Dynasty |OT| Sad!
« Reply #14013 on: February 25, 2016, 04:50:06 PM »
Quote
These two want to be the guy who answers the 3 a.m. phone call.

Tonight is the 3 a.m. phone call.

Tonight’s debate is the last chance to give the Trump steamroller a flat tire. If Trump leaves Houston unscathed, if he moves on to the Super Tuesday states and wins all or most of them — then the race is over.
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/431893/cruz-rubio-trump-debate

 :doge
010

Brehvolution

  • Until at last, I threw down my enemy and smote his ruin upon the mountainside.
  • Senior Member
Re: Donald Trump Destroys Beloved American Political Dynasty |OT| Sad!
« Reply #14014 on: February 25, 2016, 04:51:36 PM »
Those people saying, "The Senate is totally fulfilling it's duty to advise and consent. It's advising the president that it will not consent! Herp derp!" are totally the worst.

The constitution says the president shall name a replacement not may name a replacement.
©ZH

jakefromstatefarm

  • Senior Member
Re: Donald Trump Destroys Beloved American Political Dynasty |OT| Sad!
« Reply #14015 on: February 25, 2016, 05:01:46 PM »
I've talked with a guy who's a poli soc (who works on turkey :snoop) who likes to divide the modern (since reagans first campaign) gop ideological base into the moral majority, laissez-faire bidnessmen, and hawks. All three coalesced under W, the argument goes, but since 2008 they've only ever managed to run someone who appeals to one of those bases. McCain and Mitt just wanted to bomb Iran and run america like Bane, respectively, and the evangelicals took their ball and ran home because the Hayek worshipping warmongerers just weren't crazy enough.

Dennis

  • Senior Member
Re: Donald Trump Destroys Beloved American Political Dynasty |OT| Sad!
« Reply #14016 on: February 25, 2016, 05:02:21 PM »

jakefromstatefarm

  • Senior Member
Re: Donald Trump Destroys Beloved American Political Dynasty |OT| Sad!
« Reply #14017 on: February 25, 2016, 05:05:09 PM »
Actually, now that I say it out loud, he mightve just been talking about last year's Mad Max :ohhh

benjipwns

  • your bright ideas always burn me
  • Senior Member
Re: Donald Trump Destroys Beloved American Political Dynasty |OT| Sad!
« Reply #14018 on: February 25, 2016, 05:18:18 PM »
Quote
These two want to be the guy who answers the 3 a.m. phone call.

Tonight is the 3 a.m. phone call.

Tonight’s debate is the last chance to give the Trump steamroller a flat tire. If Trump leaves Houston unscathed, if he moves on to the Super Tuesday states and wins all or most of them — then the race is over.
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/431893/cruz-rubio-trump-debate

 :doge
Quote
How should Cruz and Rubio go after Trump? They must depict Trump as a game-show host out of his depth. They must laugh at his kindergarten-level grasp of national-security policy. They should bait him into putting forth an opinion on Obamacare and then mock him for having held the opposite view that morning on Morning Joe. They should pound him on his four bankruptcies, ridicule his failed Trump University scam that stole tens of thousands of dollars from average Americans, call him on his support for Planned Parenthood, knock him for his bullying, vulgar self-righteousness, laugh at him for not knowing what the nuclear triad is, and guffaw at his inept attempt to revitalize Atlantic City. And when Trump loses his cool, they should do it again and again. And again. Cruz and Rubio must mock Trump until the audience views him as the deranged half-wit that he is.

Donald Trump must be shown to be a loser.

Politely pointing out that Donald Trump isn’t a conservative isn’t going to be enough. Trump has to be shown to be ridiculous.

And Ted Cruz or Marco Rubio (or both) has to be the one to do it.

If they don’t, then the Republican nomination process is over. And the two senators will have no one to blame but themselves.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/02/25/politics/rubio-republican-convention/index.html
Quote
Marco Rubio's campaign is preparing for a contested Republican Convention as one option to take the GOP nomination away from Donald Trump and Ted Cruz, his campaign manager told top donors at a closed-door meeting in Manhattan Wednesday night.

As Rubio scrambles for support ahead of Super Tuesday, Terry Sullivan, Rubio's top adviser, used a Power Point presentation and took questions from attendees to lay out the two courses that Rubio's quest for the GOP nomination could take in the coming months, two people present told CNN, speaking anonymously to share details from a private meeting.

HyperZoneWasAwesome

  • HastilyChosenUsername
  • Senior Member
Re: Donald Trump Destroys Beloved American Political Dynasty |OT| Sad!
« Reply #14019 on: February 25, 2016, 05:24:11 PM »
if Kasich wins Ohio, Cruz Texas, isn't a brokered convention kinda plausible at that point?

I mean, that's a lotta ifs, and also supposing that Crubio stay competitive and continue to peel off delegates while still losing most states through the primary season. Can it work? It sounds kinda iffy, but as of now I don't see how else Donny realistically doesn't become the nominee.

benjipwns

  • your bright ideas always burn me
  • Senior Member
Re: Donald Trump Destroys Beloved American Political Dynasty |OT| Sad!
« Reply #14020 on: February 25, 2016, 05:24:46 PM »
Quote
chacolatte • 4 hours ago
Trumpettes are as much in thrall to this poseur as Obamorons were to the Anointed One. It has nothing to do with facts or history or character, and everything to do with emotion. Trumpettes are absolutely immune to their master's despicable character, his lies, his immorality. They want change! Terrific change! Super change! Just as the Obamorons wanted. How did that work out.
Quote
Charles M. Hagmaier  • 5 hours ago
If you Trump people aren't stupid, then you must be psychotic. Make your case. Either way, I'll be in a corner weeping for the nation, because you demented imbeciles are apparently the future.

The destructive, useless, worthless future. Who knew 28 Days Later was a political prophesy?
Quote
rg • 5 hours ago
What the nth class calls conservatism is really just code for an
exclusive club of entrenched interests that long ago disconnected from
the everyday realities of what it actually is to be an American citizen.
Ayn Rand and the objectivists, the trickle-downers, the effete
academics with their social programming theories and economic theories
and global free-trade agendas is nothing if not paternalistic but as
such it is utterly devoid of the kind of concern for the real prosperity
and/or well-being of those it professes to be looking out for: average
American citizens who the elite conservatives haughtily refer to as
'white trash' or worse. The hypocrisy and mendacity is so obvious that
people can no longer consume the self-serving lies and intellectual
pretzel logic. When the aristos come to their senses and realize and
understand and accept that the majority of just everyday average
citizens - for all their lack of education and refinement - are
sincerely suffering while a vanishingly small cohort of wealthy
individuals continue to just get more and more wealthy and nothing is
trickling down ... it is trickling overseas.
gasp

benjipwns

  • your bright ideas always burn me
  • Senior Member
Re: Donald Trump Destroys Beloved American Political Dynasty |OT| Sad!
« Reply #14021 on: February 25, 2016, 05:30:24 PM »
if Kasich wins Ohio, Cruz Texas, isn't a brokered convention kinda plausible at that point?

I mean, that's a lotta ifs, and also supposing that Crubio stay competitive and continue to peel off delegates while still losing most states through the primary season. Can it work? It sounds kinda iffy, but as of now I don't see how else Donny realistically doesn't become the nominee.
Ohio is worth 66 delegates, you need 1237 to be the nominee. (Quinnipiac has Kasich trailing 31-26 to Trump in the only poll this year of Ohio.)

Cruz has to get 50% to make Texas WTA, otherwise they'll be allocated to anyone over 20%. RCP average is 34% Cruz, 27% Trump, 18% Rubio, 7% Kasich, 5% Carson.

Sam Wang thinks there needs to be only one non-Trump left in the race before March 14th (Florida, Illinois, Missouri, North Carolina and Ohio all March 15th, only NC not WTA) or he wins by default.


Take My Breh Away

  • Senior Member
Re: Donald Trump Destroys Beloved American Political Dynasty |OT| Sad!
« Reply #14023 on: February 25, 2016, 06:04:29 PM »
Quote
if Bill Clinton is complaining about the "vicious" attacks by the campaign of pathological nice guy Bernie Sanders, it's hard to imagine what will happen once they get hit by the Trumpdozer

Quote from: matt taibbi
why do the media hate trump?

http://iscap.upenn.edu/

(Image removed from quote.)

Quote
Trump isn't the first rich guy to run for office. But he is the first to realize the weakness in the system, which is that the watchdogs in the political media can't resist a car wreck. The more he insults the press, the more they cover him: He's pulling 33 times as much coverage on the major networks as his next-closest GOP competitor, and twice as much as Hillary.

Trump found the flaw in the American Death Star. It doesn't know how to turn the cameras off, even when it's filming its own demise.

One of the biggest X factors Trump had over his rivals was that his campaign is incredibly social media savvy and the guy he hired for his social media PR in 2013 turned out to be a genius at campaigning on social media.

http://www.politico.com/story/2015/09/trumps-social-media-guy-214309

No one can stop talking about Trump because everyone talks about him all the time. They actually seized on the /pol/ memes like "Can't Stump The Trump" and engaged audiences they wouldn't normally hit. I mean, say all you want about the cross over between national socialists and japanese animation fanatics. Engagement is engagement. Voters are voters. Especially when they promote the spread of content and create narratives for you rapidly and for free. Traditional media is struggling with it and so is the GOP because their own fanaticism regarding "The Liberal Media" has meant Trumps campaign has completely seized the moment and portraying the entire media, including Fox News, against Trump and that he's a "No Bullshit" (sic) candidate who says what he wants. Even when it's against GOP tradition like "Planned Parenthood is a good idea". That fanatical Republican fanbase loves the idea of a candidate who goes against the "Establishment". It's in no way an endorsement but his campaign team is motivated, young and outright killing it with momentum and using new media to their advantage while the other Republican nominations have been lackluster at best. 

Now Trump be wrecked if he gets the nomination because that's when the knives really come out from the media big boys and Murdoch allegedly really dislikes him (Even the Billionaires in NYC don't mix with the filthy Millionaires) so he's not going to get the protection and soft touch they gave Romney last time even though it was apparently Romney wasn't "The guy". And that manchild voting block would probably be waiting for the delivery of their next Figma to go out voting so we can discount that too. 

The spectacle and fuckery would be entertaining watching GOP establishment try pitch Hillary as a "sensible alternative" versus a /pol/ meme president though :lawd

curly

  • cultural maoist
  • Senior Member
Re: Donald Trump Destroys Beloved American Political Dynasty |OT| Sad!
« Reply #14024 on: February 25, 2016, 06:10:31 PM »
Is it new though? Obama mobilized young people online too. The difference is that his young people actually came out to vote in mass whereas Sanders has yet to display the revolution he talks about. That revolution happened in 2008 bros.

Sanders is just another Ron Paul who inspired fervent excitement among a group of people with a large presence online. I used to think libertarianism was the future of the GOP, just as various think pieces now claim Sanders' ideas are the future of the democrat party. But now it looks like the GOP is heading for the same neoconservative foreign policy, corporate welfare, and authoritarianism as usual. Paul's influence now looks like it was just to convince future Trump supporters to sign up for Facebook.

The youth vote is turning out at Obama levels tho

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/22/opinion/young-voters-motivated-again.html


Quote
In one of the more pleasant surprises of this presidential campaign, young Americans are voting in big numbers, contributing to some unexpected results so far.

This is the first presidential campaign in which people age 18 to 29 make up the same proportion of the electorate as do baby boomers — about one-third. This year, the youth turnout for both parties in the primaries so far is rivaling 2008, the year of Barack Obama’s first campaign. On Saturday, young voters turned out in far greater numbers in the South Carolina Republican primary than they did in 2008 or 2012 in that state, according to a study by Tufts University’s Circle center. Donald Trump won the primary, with 32.5 percent of the vote, but young voters were the only group he didn’t carry. Marco Rubio came in second with 22.5 percent, closely followed by Ted Cruz, with 22.3 percent. Both Mr. Cruz and Mr. Trump drew bigger share of the youth vote than Mr. Rubio.

The youth vote’s biggest beneficiary by far is Bernie Sanders, who filled venues in Las Vegas with cheering young admirers last week, after winning more than 80 percent of this group in both Iowa and New Hampshire. On Saturday young people made up 18 percent of voters in Nevada’s Democratic caucus, five percentage points more than in 2008. Mr. Sanders again drew more than eight in 10 of these voters. Mrs. Clinton won Nevada with 52.7 percent, besting Mr. Sanders by 5.5 percentage points. But young people were largely responsible for closing what just a month ago had been a more than 20-point lead for her.

Joe Molotov

  • I'm much more humble than you would understand.
  • Administrator
Re: Donald Trump Destroys Beloved American Political Dynasty |OT| Sad!
« Reply #14025 on: February 25, 2016, 06:13:12 PM »
if Kasich wins Ohio, Cruz Texas, isn't a brokered convention kinda plausible at that point?

I mean, that's a lotta ifs, and also supposing that Crubio stay competitive and continue to peel off delegates while still losing most states through the primary season. Can it work? It sounds kinda iffy, but as of now I don't see how else Donny realistically doesn't become the nominee.

NYT said this morning that some Republicans leaders are hoping for a brokered convention that nominates Paul Ryan, lol.
©@©™

benjipwns

  • your bright ideas always burn me
  • Senior Member
Re: Donald Trump Destroys Beloved American Political Dynasty |OT| Sad!
« Reply #14026 on: February 25, 2016, 06:17:53 PM »
bearded or clean shaven?

Joe Molotov

  • I'm much more humble than you would understand.
  • Administrator
Re: Donald Trump Destroys Beloved American Political Dynasty |OT| Sad!
« Reply #14027 on: February 25, 2016, 06:20:57 PM »
Clean shaven, of course. Ryan's not half the man that Taft was.
©@©™

HyperZoneWasAwesome

  • HastilyChosenUsername
  • Senior Member
Re: Donald Trump Destroys Beloved American Political Dynasty |OT| Sad!
« Reply #14028 on: February 25, 2016, 06:24:10 PM »
Clean shaven, of course. Ryan's not half the man that Taft was.
that is a fat joke, right?

Olivia Wilde Homo

  • Proud Kinkshamer
  • Senior Member
Re: Donald Trump Destroys Beloved American Political Dynasty |OT| Sad!
« Reply #14029 on: February 25, 2016, 06:25:14 PM »
Since this election cycle is so rabidly anti-incumbent, bog standard political analysis goes out the window.  Even superautist Nate Silver got things wrong when he said that Trump would be over by the fall.  Trying to analyze politics in 2016 through the same lenses as 2008 and 2012 is going to make you wrong every time.

Meanwhile...

🍆🍆

benjipwns

  • your bright ideas always burn me
  • Senior Member
Re: Donald Trump Destroys Beloved American Political Dynasty |OT| Sad!
« Reply #14030 on: February 25, 2016, 06:27:45 PM »
Bernie would have just had her shot.

spoiler (click to show/hide)
The joke is a black person wouldn't be allowed at a Bernie rally in the first place.
[close]

Phoenix Dark

  • I got no game it's just some bitches understand my story
  • Senior Member
Re: Donald Trump Destroys Beloved American Political Dynasty |OT| Sad!
« Reply #14031 on: February 25, 2016, 06:40:53 PM »
I'm making black eyed peas tonight. The debate is gonna be entertaining and tasty
:lawd
010

El Babua

  • Senior Member
Re: Donald Trump Destroys Beloved American Political Dynasty |OT| Sad!
« Reply #14032 on: February 25, 2016, 08:02:45 PM »
Hopefully Rubio's just as entertaining jobbing to Trump as Jeb was.

Dennis

  • Senior Member
Re: Donald Trump Destroys Beloved American Political Dynasty |OT| Sad!
« Reply #14033 on: February 25, 2016, 08:11:36 PM »
Considering how Chris Christie rekt Rubio I am expecting Trump to go hard.


Phoenix Dark

  • I got no game it's just some bitches understand my story
  • Senior Member
Re: Donald Trump Destroys Beloved American Political Dynasty |OT| Sad!
« Reply #14035 on: February 25, 2016, 08:49:18 PM »
Am I tripping or does Marco's mouth movements seem like he has some type of partial, like a bridge?
010

Phoenix Dark

  • I got no game it's just some bitches understand my story
  • Senior Member
Re: Donald Trump Destroys Beloved American Political Dynasty |OT| Sad!
« Reply #14036 on: February 25, 2016, 09:46:24 PM »
My god, Carson has no idea how healthcare policy works.
010

Joe Molotov

  • I'm much more humble than you would understand.
  • Administrator
Re: Donald Trump Destroys Beloved American Political Dynasty |OT| Sad!
« Reply #14037 on: February 25, 2016, 10:38:52 PM »
How shitty is the debate so far? I just tuned into to Rubio getting applause from saying that Apple wasn't better than America.
©@©™

ToxicAdam

  • captain of my capsized ship
  • Senior Member
Re: Donald Trump Destroys Beloved American Political Dynasty |OT| Sad!
« Reply #14038 on: February 25, 2016, 10:43:27 PM »
I watched for 10 minutes. Its a mess.

benjipwns

  • your bright ideas always burn me
  • Senior Member
Re: Donald Trump Destroys Beloved American Political Dynasty |OT| Sad!
« Reply #14039 on: February 25, 2016, 10:48:22 PM »
How shitty is the debate so far? I just tuned into to Rubio getting applause from saying that Apple wasn't better than America.
I think the question should be...at what? "Overthrowing governments"?