Author Topic: US Politics Thread |OT| THE DARKEST TIMELINE  (Read 2656034 times)

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Re: Super Tuesday Thread of Donald Drumpf's Coronation |OT| Sad!
« Reply #14280 on: March 01, 2016, 06:20:16 PM »
Caucuses are dumb. To be honest, our political system needs changing from how we vote to when we can vote. Our system is fucked. Look up Alabama's racist voter id laws, Rufus. Also, keep in mind that more options doesn't necessarily mean they're all viable. In the UK, despite six options, conservatives and labor parties amassed over 60% of the vote. Right now America would do better having a shift left wards politics-wise, as well as making it easier to vote. Those are the primary things we need to concentrate on. More options doesn't mean much when an ever increasingly voting public aren't even allowed to vote.

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Re: Super Tuesday Thread of Donald Drumpf's Coronation |OT| Sad!
« Reply #14281 on: March 01, 2016, 06:24:22 PM »
You're mistaken. She's not saying because Bill played sax on Arsenio that black people voted for him. She's deconstructing the "first black president myth", and it's a good place to start.

Nah, she's saying that black support of the Clintons is due entirely to optics, and black people who vote for Hillary are "getting played."  White people had their own version of this argument (see Thomas Frank's "What's The Matter With Kansas?") and it's condescending as hell.

She also says that the Clinton administration basically just continued Reagan's policies, and were much more destructive towards the black community.  That's just wrong.  She takes what ought to be a solid premise and chooses to be really dishonest about it.

Given the amount of devotion i've seen from family members, I do think some are getting played. Many are voting for her because they think it'll be the second coming of the 90's. Certainly, some black Hilary voters are definitely getting played. Not all. It depends on why you're voting for her more than anything.

I agree with the second point but still find the article useful in arguing away the black fealty to clinton administration.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2016, 06:29:19 PM by Mods Help »

Phoenix Dark

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Re: Super Tuesday Thread of Donald Drumpf's Coronation |OT| Sad!
« Reply #14282 on: March 01, 2016, 06:28:39 PM »
You're mistaken. She's not saying because Bill played sax on Arsenio that black people voted for him. She's deconstructing the "first black president myth", and it's a good place to start.

Nah, she's saying that black support of the Clintons is due entirely to optics, and black people who vote for Hillary are "getting played."  White people had their own version of this argument (see Thomas Frank's "What's The Matter With Kansas?") and it's condescending as hell.

She also says that the Clinton administration basically just continued Reagan's policies, and were much more destructive towards the black community.  That's just wrong.  She takes what ought to be a solid premise and chooses to be really dishonest about it.

You're supposed to sit down, be quiet, and let her tell you what's what. Don't be a problematic ally.

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Mandark

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Re: Super Tuesday Thread of Donald Drumpf's Coronation |OT| Sad!
« Reply #14283 on: March 01, 2016, 06:50:12 PM »
I mean, I'm sure there are a ton of black people supporting Hillary who aren't hyper-informed on the issues, who have unrealistic expectations of what she could do, who have whitewashed some of her past politics.  But the same could be said of supporters of any candidate.

The EITC, SCHIP, WIC funding, the FMLA, the civil rights bureau of the justice department, the effort to open the military to gay soldiers, the defense of federal AA programs, these aren't nothing.  Older black folk mostly remember Bill and Hillary Clinton being on their side during the political battles of the 90's, and generally they're not wrong.  It's not to say they didn't fail or concede ground in those or other areas, or that activists should ever stop pressuring elected officials. 

But when you're looking to persuade, it's best to try to start from a place of actual understanding and listening, rather that dismissing or pathologizing those you disagree with.

Phoenix Dark

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Re: Super Tuesday Thread of Donald Drumpf's Coronation |OT| Sad!
« Reply #14284 on: March 01, 2016, 07:33:05 PM »
Sounds like Clinton is blowing Sanders out in Appalachia. There was some talk on him making gains there...nope.
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Re: Super Tuesday Thread of Donald Drumpf's Coronation |OT| Sad!
« Reply #14285 on: March 01, 2016, 07:37:25 PM »
I mean, I'm sure there are a ton of black people supporting Hillary who aren't hyper-informed on the issues, who have unrealistic expectations of what she could do, who have whitewashed some of her past politics.  But the same could be said of supporters of any candidate.

The EITC, SCHIP, WIC funding, the FMLA, the civil rights bureau of the justice department, the effort to open the military to gay soldiers, the defense of federal AA programs, these aren't nothing.  Older black folk mostly remember Bill and Hillary Clinton being on their side during the political battles of the 90's, and generally they're not wrong.  It's not to say they didn't fail or concede ground in those or other areas, or that activists should ever stop pressuring elected officials. 

But when you're looking to persuade, it's best to try to start from a place of actual understanding and listening, rather that dismissing or pathologizing those you disagree with.

I can agree with that. :obama

Joe Molotov

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Re: Super Tuesday Thread of Donald Drumpf's Coronation |OT| Sad!
« Reply #14286 on: March 01, 2016, 07:41:20 PM »
But when you're looking to persuade, it's best to try to start from a place of actual understanding and listening, rather that dismissing or pathologizing those you disagree with.

:supergay :supergay :supergay
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Mandark

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Re: Super Tuesday Thread of Donald Drumpf's Coronation |OT| Sad!
« Reply #14287 on: March 01, 2016, 07:43:46 PM »
Disclaimer: It's probably trivially easy to check my internet commenting history and make me a horrible hypocrite on that last point.

But, um... #thedualities?  :yeshrug

curly

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Re: Super Tuesday Thread of Donald Drumpf's Coronation |OT| Sad!
« Reply #14288 on: March 01, 2016, 07:53:11 PM »
If Hillary were a bad candidate, she wouldn't be cruising to the nomination right now.  Real talk.


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Re: Super Tuesday Thread of Donald Drumpf's Coronation |OT| Sad!
« Reply #14289 on: March 01, 2016, 07:57:25 PM »
That's a myth going around saying that she doesn't gain support over time, but actually loses it.

Any data to back that up?

It's a common argument and something I had in mind when I said she's a bad candidate for the DNC.

thisismyusername

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Re: Super Tuesday Thread of Donald Drumpf's Coronation |OT| Sad!
« Reply #14290 on: March 01, 2016, 08:01:16 PM »
Sounds like Clinton is blowing Sanders out in Appalachia. There was some talk on him making gains there...nope.

People aren't ready for socialism.  :ussrcry

It pisses me off that some of Bernie's policies like vacation days, minimum wage raising, paternity leave and the like for work in the US simply isn't going to be done by the other candidates. I don't expect Clinton (or Trump) to combat outsourcing and other issues like that.

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Re: Super Tuesday Thread of Donald Drumpf's Coronation |OT| Sad!
« Reply #14291 on: March 01, 2016, 08:02:45 PM »
Sounds like Clinton is blowing Sanders out in Appalachia. There was some talk on him making gains there...nope.

It pisses me off that some of Bernie's policies like vacation days, minimum wage raising, paternity leave and the like for work in the US simply isn't going to be done by the other candidates. I don't expect Clinton (or Trump) to combat outsourcing and other issues like that.

It really is a shame.

A lot of people say bernie's policies are too big to get made, as if more vacation days, a higher minimum wage, paternity leave, and making election day a holiday are completely impossible.

We need all of these things.

mormapope

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Re: Super Tuesday Thread of Donald Drumpf's Coronation |OT| Sad!
« Reply #14292 on: March 01, 2016, 08:07:32 PM »
Having all the convenience in the world at the palm of your hand while being completely miserable is a status quo many Americans don't question.
OH!

Mandark

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Re: Super Tuesday Thread of Donald Drumpf's Coronation |OT| Sad!
« Reply #14293 on: March 01, 2016, 08:14:24 PM »


Starts low cause of obscurity, goes up as she becomes first lady, goes down as she's associated with Hillarycare and general Clinton backlash, way up as she becomes sympathetic during the Lewinsky scandal, back down when she runs for Senate, back up a bit as people start to really hate GWB, down during the primary campaign, a big sustained high when she's Secretary of State and is "above the fray," and down again when she's running.

Basically it's a function of what her public role is at the time.  If she's not mixing it up in partisan politics than more people admire her.  If she's running for office, Republicans will remember they hate her, and she'll pick up disapproval from the supporters of her rival.  You could see some of the same with her husband, where he was well over 60% before and after the 2008 elections, but dropped about ten points when he was helping campaign.

benjipwns

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Re: Super Tuesday Thread of Donald Drumpf's Coronation |OT| Sad!
« Reply #14294 on: March 01, 2016, 08:18:21 PM »
ADMIT THAT SHE PUNCHES BABY SEALS, MANDARK! ADMIT IT, YOU SHILL!
I notice that Mandark hasn't done this....

just saying

Syph

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Mandark

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Re: Super Tuesday Thread of Donald Drumpf's Coronation |OT| Sad!
« Reply #14296 on: March 01, 2016, 08:29:50 PM »


Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

benjipwns

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Re: Super Tuesday Thread of Donald Drumpf's Coronation |OT| Sad!
« Reply #14297 on: March 01, 2016, 08:33:00 PM »
On that point, is there hope of the US un-fucking its voting system so that more than two parties become viable again? It seems everyone who's politically matured (don't ask me whatever that means) accepts that the game is played a certain way and that strategic voting is the smart(er) thing to do.
The two parties would have to agree to reduce their influence. Their privileged position is often written into the law. That's one area they agree on. Both parties are the same.

On the non-Presidential front, Independents or "Third Parties" have won gubernatorial elections in Alaska (1990 and 2014), Connecticut (1990), Maine (1994 and 1998...Angus King who also won one of Maine's Senate seats in 2012 as an Independent), Minnesota (1998...Jesse Ventura), and Rhode Island (2010...Lincoln Chafee) in the last 25 years.

I think that's the more likely event for a third party considering those are often won on state issues, easier to fund, and for some reason people never seem to feel like they're throwing their vote away on Governor like they do President. Even though the former is more likely to intentionally poison their water supply.

One of the more interesting Senate races was when William F. Buckley's brother James Buckley won election to the Senate as a member of the New York Conservative Party in 1970 (39%), knocking off the Democratic candidate (37%) and the incumbent (24%) who was running as the Republican Party and Liberal Party candidates. (Rudy won his elections as mayor of NYC on a Republican/Liberal ticket, with the Conservatives running another candidate. But New York allows fusion tickets. In any other state Rudy's "Liberal" votes would not have counted towards his total.)

In the last hundred years, only two third-party presidential candidates have won any states.

Both of them were campaigning on a platform of explicit, government-sanctioned racial segregation.

edit: and if benji comes in here with some "in 1960 some unpledged delegates voted for Harry Byrd" I swear to God...
1924 not in the last hundred years confirmed

brawndolicious

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Re: Super Tuesday Thread of Donald Drumpf's Coronation |OT| Sad!
« Reply #14298 on: March 01, 2016, 08:35:02 PM »
Dayum looks like Trump even got Georgia away from Rubio. And it looks like Hillary might win everything besides Vermont (Mass is too close to call).

benjipwns

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Re: Super Tuesday Thread of Donald Drumpf's Coronation |OT| Sad!
« Reply #14299 on: March 01, 2016, 08:35:55 PM »
KINKY FRIEDMAN: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_gubernatorial_election,_2006

EDIT:
Quote
Bell also won the Latino vote with 41%, while Perry got 31%, Strayhorn got 18% and Friedman got 4%.

Mandark

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Re: Super Tuesday Thread of Donald Drumpf's Coronation |OT| Sad!
« Reply #14300 on: March 01, 2016, 08:36:26 PM »
1924 not in the last hundred years confirmed

Of course it'd be fuckin' Wisconsin

benjipwns

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Re: Super Tuesday Thread of Donald Drumpf's Coronation |OT| Sad!
« Reply #14301 on: March 01, 2016, 08:44:38 PM »
Perot did beat out one of the two main party candidates in Maine (Bush) and Utah (Clinton) in 1992.

La Follette also beat out Davis in California, Idaho, Iowa, Minnesota, Montana, Nevada, North Dakota, Oregon, South Dakota, Washington and Wyoming.

1924 has a fun county map:

Great Rumbler

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Re: Super Tuesday Thread of Donald Drumpf's Coronation |OT| Sad!
« Reply #14302 on: March 01, 2016, 08:50:18 PM »
Fox News is projecting a win in Virginia for Trump, which would effectively end Rubio's campaign, but nobody else has called it just yet.
dog

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Re: Super Tuesday Thread of Donald Drumpf's Coronation |OT| Sad!
« Reply #14303 on: March 01, 2016, 08:51:35 PM »
Is there some movement to elect trump as a prank or is America really so fucking stupid and just want to vote in the guy from the tv?

benjipwns

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Re: Super Tuesday Thread of Donald Drumpf's Coronation |OT| Sad!
« Reply #14304 on: March 01, 2016, 08:51:48 PM »
AP just called Virginia too.

benjipwns

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Re: Super Tuesday Thread of Donald Drumpf's Coronation |OT| Sad!
« Reply #14305 on: March 01, 2016, 08:55:40 PM »
84% reporting in VA, Trump 36-Rubio 31-Cruz 17.

Trump beating the shit out of Cruz and Rubio in Georgia with ~20% in, 45-23-20.

Cruz 32-Trump 31-Rubio 24 in OK. 50-41 Sanders.

Great Rumbler

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Re: Super Tuesday Thread of Donald Drumpf's Coronation |OT| Sad!
« Reply #14306 on: March 01, 2016, 08:56:22 PM »
You know, I have a sick fascination with destruction and disaster. I watch Fail Army videos, videos with stuff blowing up, weather disasters, and just generally want to see the effects of something big and unexpected. It's not a healthy fascination, I understand that, but it is what it is. And, deep down, a small part of me wants Trump to win just to see how grotesque his time in office truly is.

But you know what? I really, really hope Trump doesn't get any closer to the White House than he already is.
dog

Mandark

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Re: Super Tuesday Thread of Donald Drumpf's Coronation |OT| Sad!
« Reply #14307 on: March 01, 2016, 08:58:13 PM »
Is there some movement to elect trump as a prank or is America really so fucking stupid and just want to vote in the guy from the tv?

Here's my take.

1) He got a lot of free press. A LOT. CNN broadcasting his uninterrupted campaign rallies etc.

2) Other candidates attacked each other instead of him, cause they didn't take him seriously.

3) Four other candidates are STILL in the race siphoning off votes from each other. He's winning some states with 35%.

4) We got a bunch of racists in this country.

Phoenix Dark

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Stoney Mason

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Re: Super Tuesday Thread of Donald Drumpf's Coronation |OT| Sad!
« Reply #14309 on: March 01, 2016, 09:00:33 PM »
But you know what? I really, really hope Trump doesn't get any closer to the White House than he already is.

While I never thought he was a lock, I never thought he was completely out of it like alot of people did for the nomination.

Rich person basically saying America Rocks and every other country sucks isn't that out of line with what republicans are. It's just basically turned up to 11.

Madrun Badrun

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Re: Super Tuesday Thread of Donald Drumpf's Coronation |OT| Sad!
« Reply #14310 on: March 01, 2016, 09:01:40 PM »
I'm starting to think that Hilary probably won't be so bad if she treats it like Obama's third term or something and in 2020 we (somehow) have a more progressive candidate.


Why do you think she won't try to do 8 years?

I think she will. I'm hoping someone better comes along in 2020 really.

Sitting presidents are hardly ever challenged though. 

Mandark

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Re: Super Tuesday Thread of Donald Drumpf's Coronation |OT| Sad!
« Reply #14311 on: March 01, 2016, 09:03:35 PM »
Sitting presidents are hardly ever challenged though.

Just posting to preempt benji's inevitable tangent on Reagan/Ford, Kennedy/Carter, Buchanan/Bush, etc.

Vertigo

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Re: Super Tuesday Thread of Donald Drumpf's Coronation |OT| Sad!
« Reply #14312 on: March 01, 2016, 09:04:23 PM »
Is there some movement to elect trump as a prank or is America really so fucking stupid and just want to vote in the guy from the tv?

Nope people seem to be serious about voting for him. And I think it's gone well past him just being from the TV his tapping into some real discontent.

Just wish it was in a more deserved direction.

curly

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Re: Super Tuesday Thread of Donald Drumpf's Coronation |OT| Sad!
« Reply #14313 on: March 01, 2016, 09:04:59 PM »
Is there some movement to elect trump as a prank or is America really so fucking stupid and just want to vote in the guy from the tv?

Here's my take.

1) He got a lot of free press. A LOT. CNN broadcasting his uninterrupted campaign rallies etc.

2) Other candidates attacked each other instead of him, cause they didn't take him seriously.

3) Four other candidates are STILL in the race siphoning off votes from each other. He's winning some states with 35%.

4) We got a bunch of racists in this country.

Economic populism seems to be a pretty important factor too. Trump is giving poor Republicans something they're not getting from any of the mainstream candidates.

benjipwns

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Re: Super Tuesday Thread of Donald Drumpf's Coronation |OT| Sad!
« Reply #14314 on: March 01, 2016, 09:10:36 PM »
OK called for Cruz.

Great Rumbler

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Re: Super Tuesday Thread of Donald Drumpf's Coronation |OT| Sad!
« Reply #14315 on: March 01, 2016, 09:12:19 PM »
That will be enough to keep Cruz afloat for a little while longer, but he's going to be very far behind after Super Tuesday.
dog

benjipwns

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Re: Super Tuesday Thread of Donald Drumpf's Coronation |OT| Sad!
« Reply #14316 on: March 01, 2016, 09:14:39 PM »
Just posting to preempt benji's inevitable tangent on Reagan/Ford, Kennedy/Carter, Buchanan/Bush, etc.
Lincoln Chafee was about to announce his anti-war campaign for the 2004 GOP Nomination when Saddam got captured.

benjipwns

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Re: Super Tuesday Thread of Donald Drumpf's Coronation |OT| Sad!
« Reply #14317 on: March 01, 2016, 09:19:12 PM »
OK called for Sanders too. Some of those black newspapers must have gotten up north.

 :rejoice

Syph

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Re: Super Tuesday Thread of Donald Drumpf's Coronation |OT| Sad!
« Reply #14318 on: March 01, 2016, 09:21:46 PM »
Fox News is projecting a win in Virginia for Trump, which would effectively end Rubio's campaign, but nobody else has called it just yet.
i reserve my right to cry until the 15th when the florida fiasco becomes a reality
until then it's still Rubio 2016 baby
XO

Phoenix Dark

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Re: Super Tuesday Thread of Donald Drumpf's Coronation |OT| Sad!
« Reply #14319 on: March 01, 2016, 09:31:06 PM »
Rubio is finished on March 15th (Florida).
010

Phoenix Dark

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Re: Super Tuesday Thread of Donald Drumpf's Coronation |OT| Sad!
« Reply #14320 on: March 01, 2016, 09:39:08 PM »
omg Christie has the "I've made a huge mistake" face as he introduces Trump  :lol
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Re: Super Tuesday Thread of Donald Drumpf's Coronation |OT| Sad!
« Reply #14321 on: March 01, 2016, 09:53:58 PM »
OK called for Sanders too. Some of those black newspapers must have gotten up north.

 :rejoice

:lol


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Re: Super Tuesday Thread of Donald Drumpf's Coronation |OT| Sad!
« Reply #14323 on: March 01, 2016, 10:12:37 PM »
Trump refused to deny an endorsement from a former KKK member. On a scale of monsterdom, balancing them is stupid. They're all monsters; trump is just the most popular one.

Olivia Wilde Homo

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Re: Super Tuesday Thread of Donald Drumpf's Coronation |OT| Sad!
« Reply #14324 on: March 01, 2016, 10:20:13 PM »
I don't even think Ron Paul evangelicals went off the deep end like this

🍆🍆

benjipwns

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Re: Super Tuesday Thread of Donald Drumpf's Coronation |OT| Sad!
« Reply #14325 on: March 01, 2016, 10:24:33 PM »
What would any politician saying "I don't accept [X's] endorsement" get them exactly though? How many endorsements that aren't major politicians/celebrities do they exactly tout as accepting in the first place?

Trump's list is arguably the best.

https://twitter.com/REAL_SPREWELL15/status/694296666946424832  :lol

Mandark

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Re: Super Tuesday Thread of Donald Drumpf's Coronation |OT| Sad!
« Reply #14326 on: March 01, 2016, 10:24:42 PM »
That's photoshopped from a picture posted to Reddit over 3 years ago.

Took like three clicks to figure out that was fake.

Phoenix Dark

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Re: Super Tuesday Thread of Donald Drumpf's Coronation |OT| Sad!
« Reply #14327 on: March 01, 2016, 10:26:14 PM »
I knew Mary Tyler Whore was a part of the establishment. Six figure making motherfucker
010

Mandark

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Re: Super Tuesday Thread of Donald Drumpf's Coronation |OT| Sad!
« Reply #14328 on: March 01, 2016, 10:28:37 PM »
What would any politician saying "I don't accept [X's] endorsement" get them exactly though? How many endorsements that aren't major politicians/celebrities do they exactly tout as accepting in the first place?

Do you actually not understand what's going on, or are you pretending to not understand as a way of making a point?
« Last Edit: March 01, 2016, 10:35:26 PM by Mandark »

Madrun Badrun

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Re: Super Tuesday Thread of Donald Drumpf's Coronation |OT| Sad!
« Reply #14329 on: March 01, 2016, 10:34:11 PM »
That's photoshopped from a picture posted to Reddit over 3 years ago.

Took like three clicks to figure out that was fake.

Well look at Mr. Killjoy over here. 

Mandark

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Re: Super Tuesday Thread of Donald Drumpf's Coronation |OT| Sad!
« Reply #14330 on: March 01, 2016, 10:35:09 PM »
Don't worry, I'm not about to start fact-checking the pictures you post.

benjipwns

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Re: Super Tuesday Thread of Donald Drumpf's Coronation |OT| Sad!
« Reply #14331 on: March 01, 2016, 10:38:10 PM »
Do you actually not understand what's going on, or are you pretending to not understand as a way of making a point?
Donald Trump stating "I don't accept David Duke's endorsement, or any other racists or bigots" doesn't mean David Duke, racists and all-purpose bigots still aren't endorsing and supporting Trump. Nor does it mean Trump isn't a white supremacist that agrees with them 100%. As proof, I have their endorsements of him, he's just playing politics by rejecting their endorsements.

Well look at Mr. Killjoy over here.
Mr. Killjoy actually wasn't happy about murders.

Joe Molotov

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Re: Super Tuesday Thread of Donald Drumpf's Coronation |OT| Sad!
« Reply #14332 on: March 01, 2016, 10:38:19 PM »
Don't worry, I'm not about to start fact-checking the pictures you post.

According to Tom Six, they're 100% medically accurate.
©@©™

Mandark

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Re: Super Tuesday Thread of Donald Drumpf's Coronation |OT| Sad!
« Reply #14333 on: March 01, 2016, 10:41:55 PM »
so that's making a point then

benjipwns

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Re: Super Tuesday Thread of Donald Drumpf's Coronation |OT| Sad!
« Reply #14334 on: March 01, 2016, 10:44:02 PM »
so that's making a point then
Sorry your queen could only steal 7 of 11 states from The People.

Syph

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Re: Super Tuesday Thread of Donald Drumpf's Coronation |OT| Sad!
« Reply #14335 on: March 01, 2016, 10:44:31 PM »
Don't worry, I'm not about to start fact-checking the pictures you post.

According to Tom Six, they're 100% medically accurate.
i'm ben carson and my hands approve this message
XO

Mandark

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Re: Super Tuesday Thread of Donald Drumpf's Coronation |OT| Sad!
« Reply #14336 on: March 01, 2016, 10:45:27 PM »
pd, tell benji about the kkk and why they're generally frowned upon

Great Rumbler

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Re: Super Tuesday Thread of Donald Drumpf's Coronation |OT| Sad!
« Reply #14337 on: March 01, 2016, 10:48:45 PM »
https://vine.co/v/igHFKFWVDnO

"...I've just made a huge mistake."
dog

Phoenix Dark

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benjipwns

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Re: Super Tuesday Thread of Donald Drumpf's Coronation |OT| Sad!
« Reply #14339 on: March 01, 2016, 10:50:38 PM »
pd, tell benji about the kkk and why they're generally frowned upon
And stating you reject their or their members or their former members endorsements should matter why? It's not like he's rejecting the reasons he's getting their endorsement.

https://vine.co/v/igHFKFWVDnO

"...I've just made a huge mistake."
Would also work with Curb's music.