US Politics Thread |OT| THE DARKEST TIMELINE

[Mandark]

I'm talking about the shady bullshit both parties do in regards to scheduling debates on dates where most people probably aren't gonna be paying attention to make sure most folks aren't getting their messages so they are blindly voted on. It's just this year the DNC have wanted to try to "hide" their debates really hard on nights (you think most folks are gonna be inside on Saturday night with a TV? ).

Two out of eight Dem debates were on a Saturday.  The rest were on Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, and Sunday.

A persecution complex isn't a good look this season.

[Joe Molotov]

No one is watching the Dem debates because Hillary and Bernie don't get into literal dick measuring contests and talk about nuking the shit out of Iran on Day 1.

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

Wikileaks apparently got a hold of 2+ TB and 11 million documents from a Panama law firm that specializes in offshoring.  It's already hit Putin, FIFA, and the Iceland PM.

As far as I understood it (poorly, as a foreigner) nothing the Sanders people did was technically against the rules. Still maybe not the best image to project for your campaign.

I understand there's a big "state particularism" going on in the US but honestly the primaries system seems to be completely out of whack to a foreigner, with all the different modes (caucus, open and closed primary with weird delegate fuckery on top) thrown in. Seems counterproductive with gauging popularity evenly across the country among party supporters and / or the general public while favoring whoever is more versed in the arcane party bullshit like in this case.

Caucuses tend to reward the candidates with the most energized base.  For Democrats, it's Sanders; for Republicans, it's Cruz.

Having participated in caucuses, I would much rather have a primary where I can just fill out a ballot instead.

[curly]

I'm talking about the shady bullshit both parties do in regards to scheduling debates on dates where most people probably aren't gonna be paying attention to make sure most folks aren't getting their messages so they are blindly voted on. It's just this year the DNC have wanted to try to "hide" their debates really hard on nights (you think most folks are gonna be inside on Saturday night with a TV? ).

Two out of eight Dem debates were on a Saturday.  The rest were on Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, and Sunday.

A persecution complex isn't a good look this season.

Yeah because having a quarter of your debates on a night where no one watches TV is really good politics.

[Sausage]

The Sunday debate was during an NFL playoff game so that's another bad day.

[Mandark]

The Sunday debate was during an NFL playoff game so that's another bad day.

No it wasn't.

[Phoenix Dark]

The Sunday debate was during an NFL playoff game so that's another bad day.

No it wasn't.

Dunno which sunday he's referring to but yes they did schedule during a playoff game

https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/politics/2016/01/15/democrats-debate-during-nfl-playoff-game-downton-abbey/t2tr6YCcVSBFWxohQdC0zJ/story.html

Previous debate scheduling was indeed terrible.

[Mandark]

yes they did schedule during a playoff game

Nope.

[Mandark]

I'm just wounded PD thinks I'd post that without having double-checked it first.  It aired the same day as SEA-CAR and DEN-PIT, but the games were finished well before the debate started.  You can google the Nielsen ratings for that night if you want (ironically the game was up against Madam Secretary), but all Sunday NFL playoff games before the conference championships start in the afternoon.

There's also something all four Saturday debates (two for each party) have in common this cycle, if anyone wants to guess what that is.

[Madrun Badrun]

They all happened on a Saturday.  Where is my prize.

[Phoenix Dark]

I'm just wounded PD thinks I'd post that without having double-checked it first.  It aired the same day as SEA-CAR and DEN-PIT, but the games were finished well before the debate started.  You can google the Nielsen ratings for that night if you want (ironically the game was up against Madam Secretary), but all Sunday NFL playoff games before the conference championships start in the afternoon.

There's also something all four Saturday debates (two for each party) have in common this cycle, if anyone wants to guess what that is.

Ls are the currency standard of the Bore, I was just trying to collect. But it looks like I took an L instead.


I was thinking "wow, I remember watching the game that night and maybe watching 10 minutes of the debate...."thinking they were at the same time. But yea, same day different times. What's throwing me off most likely: short winter days, so it was probably dark at 5PM and I remember it as 8PM.

[james]

I looked at my predict-it for the first time in a month and my Trump shares are down by 50%?

What the flying fuck

[Syph]

I looked at my predict-it for the first time in a month and my Trump shares are down by 50%?

What the flying fuck

It's cause of the "first ballot or bust" for Trump scenario picking up steam

[james]

I looked at my predict-it for the first time in a month and my Trump shares are down by 50%?

What the flying fuck

It's cause of the "first ballot or bust" for Trump scenario picking up steam

Fuck Nate Silver.

I cant take a two week break from Trump without that ass fucking up my investment.

For fucks sake.

What will i tell my kids once Christmas comes and daddys big payday was cancelled?

[Madrun Badrun]

Tell them daddy can't make America great again.  No one can.

[octopushover]

tell them it's a good thing bernie sanders is going to raise minimum wage to $15 so you can afford both smokes AND cereal

[The Sceneman]

https://amp.twimg.com/v/1d8ca60b-fd6f-4152-9753-4c9356eeb9bc



edit: actually realised this video isnt a parody, I pray for Jesus and America

[tiesto]

https://amp.twimg.com/v/1d8ca60b-fd6f-4152-9753-4c9356eeb9bc



edit: actually realised this video isnt a parody, I pray for Jesus and America

A Trump presidency would be even worse than the ME3 ending...

[Phoenix Dark]

Donald Trump skips grandson’s bris to remain on campaign trail
http://www.jta.org/2016/04/04/news-opinion/politics/donald-trump-skips-grandsons-bris-to-remain-on-campaign-trail

spoiler (click to show/hide)

for Benji (and Mandark)

Curtis Dran
for someone thet liberal jews claim does not like Jews, trump has more Jewish grandkids than most jewish liberals and 2 of his kids were married under a chuppa again more than most liberal jewish kids do

[close]

[Madrun Badrun]

To be fair, watching someone get their foreskin cut off is gross. 

[Joe Molotov]

To be fair, watching someone get their foreskin cut off is gross. 

Even Moses was like "Yo, this shit is wack."

[Steve Contra]

Guess what, turns out Bernie Sanders doesn't know much about how he would go about breaking up the big banks, and doesn't seem to know much about the topic in general.  Not surprising since "breaking up the banks" isn't really a policy, it just sounds nice.

http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/transcript-bernie-sanders-meets-news-editorial-board-article-1.2588306

[octopushover]

To be fair, watching someone get their foreskin cut off is gross.

oh, dandy, i'm pretty sure i've seen you post a gif of it in the nsfw thread though.

you can't hide from me.

[Madrun Badrun]

Guess what, turns out Bernie Sanders doesn't know much about how he would go about breaking up the big banks, and doesn't seem to know much about the topic in general.  Not surprising since "breaking up the banks" isn't really a policy, it just sounds nice.

http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/transcript-bernie-sanders-meets-news-editorial-board-article-1.2588306

I'm not sure that is very abnormal - I doubt most candidates have a specific plan of for most of their policies.  And he said now he will do it first off the bat, by passing legislation, the form of which is basically completely dictated on what can be negotiated at a later point in time, so giving specifics now just sets him up, or any politician, for failure.   

My guess is the combative nature of the interview (and I'm not saying that's a bad thing) put him off his toes.       

[Tasty]

Guess what, turns out Bernie Sanders doesn't know much about how he would go about breaking up the big banks, and doesn't seem to know much about the topic in general.  Not surprising since "breaking up the banks" isn't really a policy, it just sounds nice.

http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/transcript-bernie-sanders-meets-news-editorial-board-article-1.2588306

His free college plan is also pretty bonkers. Wants states to foot a third of the bill, and that's even assuming the fed gets all the money he wants from wall street without totally fucking the economy in the process. Yeah that'll go over well in all those red states clinging to meager medicare scraps already...

[ToxicAdam]

Guess what, turns out Bernie Sanders doesn't know much about how he would go about breaking up the big banks, and doesn't seem to know much about the topic in general.  Not surprising since "breaking up the banks" isn't really a policy, it just sounds nice.

http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/transcript-bernie-sanders-meets-news-editorial-board-article-1.2588306

It illustrates the core problem with any big issue that Washington tries to tackle. The President calls upon 'experts' to help guide him and all those experts are people that have been involved in banking industry for 30+ years and have financial/political ties all over the place.

[brob]

he wouldn't have this issue if his platform was nationalizing the banks.

[VomKriege]

Guess what, turns out Bernie Sanders doesn't know much about how he would go about breaking up the big banks, and doesn't seem to know much about the topic in general.  Not surprising since "breaking up the banks" isn't really a policy, it just sounds nice.

http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/transcript-bernie-sanders-meets-news-editorial-board-article-1.2588306

The bit about the banks is vague and that's not good, but on a quick glance the most damning part for me was the "international trade agreements" that he wants to renegotiate. I'm totally OK with the sentiment that there should be more consideration in international agreement for worker's protection, but changing any of the existing infrastructure is a huge ordeal for which you need to have an actual game plan.

[Madrun Badrun]

he wouldn't have this issue if his platform was nationalizing the banks.

I honestly don't understand why commercial and retail banks are not nationalized.   They are basically necessities to modern living and should not be in the hands of business. 

[Madrun Badrun]

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/bernie-sanders-calls-shutting-down-ny-nuke-plant 

[jakefromstatefarm]

It illustrates the core problem with any big issue that Washington tries to tackle. The President calls upon 'experts' to help guide him and all those experts are people that have been involved in banking industry for 30+ years and have financial/political ties all over the place.

Are the council of economic advisors shills? What about the federal reserve? The american economic association?

[Tasty]

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/bernie-sanders-calls-shutting-down-ny-nuke-plant 

"That is why the United States must lead the world in transforming our energy system away from nuclear power"

 

Sanders is the only candidate in either party who wants to end nuclear energy production, which currently accounts for 20% of U.S. electrical generation.

Good luck.

[Madrun Badrun]

Honestly, I'm pretty pronuclear and always get my titties in a twist when someone mentions nuclear waste as unenvironmental or dangerous.     

[mormapope]

Why didn't you quote the full paragraph? 

“Even in a perfect world where energy companies didn’t make mistakes, nuclear power is and always has been a dangerous idea because there is no good way to store nuclear waste,” Sanders said. “That is why the United States must lead the world in transforming our energy system away from nuclear power and fossil fuels.”

This is a good point. Unless you doubt what nuclear waste could do and cause.

[Madrun Badrun]

Yep.  There are a thousand fears about it - most of which are dumb.  There is no difference between man made and natural radioactivity.  You are just digging up some scattered radio active materials that are all over the place and putting them in one place slightly transformed.  Also the vast majority of radio active waste has a very short half life, with only a small percentage of it lasting for 10s of thousands of years. 

Yes there are environmental issues with digging it up, and putting it in one place, but its so much less damaging and dangerous than burning coal or gas which account for like 60% of U.S. energy. 

There are very rational fears of power plants being close to city centers and being outdated, both of which can easily be solved with money.  You don't want one close to your city?  Pay the extra money for increased transition costs/losses.  You don't want outdated plans?  update them. 

[Tasty]

Axing a power plant which provides 25% of electricity to NYC without stating how he'd make up that deficit sounds pretty similar to Bernie's other plans tbh.

[Phoenix Dark]

I'll tell you how he'd pay for it. He'd raise taxes on millionahs and billionahs to pay for the construction of more wind and solar energy.

derp derp derp

[Tasty]

The Panama Papers could hand Bernie Sanders the keys to the White House

[Brehvolution]

[Madrun Badrun]

Pretending Jesus didn't love figs is sacrilegious.  Dude came from one of the biggest fig producing regions of world.  They are just nuts for figs over there.     

[Tasty]

Trump campaign in disarray

+

Trump is in trouble in Wisconsin

+

‘It Was Riotous’: An Oral History of the GOP’s Last Open Convention

=



Could all of this + his abortion comments last week finally sink Trump?

[Madrun Badrun]

Honestly, I'd rather have Trump than Cruz. 

[Tasty]

Honestly, I'd rather have Trump than Cruz.

Trump is the weaker candidate and much less rigid about conservative policies, but I still don't trust him with nukes and his rhetoric is outright dangerous. They're both pretty awful.

[Mandark]

Cruz is scary cause he's so doctrinaire.  Trump is scary cause he's undeterred by existing norms or by his own staggering ignorance.  For me it's a coin toss who'd be worse as president and I'd rather not get any hard data on it.

[Phoenix Dark]

I'd imagine a Trump presidency could quickly end in some type of intervention to remove him from office, whereas Cruz seems smart enough to simply use the House/senate majority as best he can while backing off from some of his crazier views. As an example there's no way a President Cruz would refuse to raise the debt ceiling, for instance.

Therefore I'd fear a Cruz presidency more solely because it would last 4 years and he could get a lot of ugly stuff accomplished.

[Madrun Badrun]

he could get a lot of ugly stuff accomplished.

This.  Trump won't get anything domestic done and I think the life time bureaucrats in the international departments and organizations will keep him inline regarding international issues. 

[benjipwns]

http://www.salon.com/2016/04/04/hillary_is_sick_of_the_left_why_bernies_persistence_is_a_powerful_reminder_of_clintons_troubling_centrism/

According to the British website, PoliticalCompass.org, which measures political ideology on a multi-axis model, based on social and economic beliefs, Sanders is the true moderate of the 2016 primaries, while Clinton is a both economically and socially on the center-right, and Republican candidates are on the far right. Sanders’ “economics are Keynesian or Galbraithian,” explains the website, “in common with mainstream parties of the left in the rest of the west  — the Labour or Social Democrat parties.”

Sanders is symbolic of a left-wing resurgence, and he has certainly made Clinton’s life harder with his impressive grassroots campaign. But the left has always been repelled by the Clintons, with or without Bernie. Ever since Bill and Hillary skyrocketed to political stardom in the early ’90s and helped transform American liberalism, those on the left have regarded them both as unprincipled careerists who are willing to say just about anything to get elected. President Clinton’s administration frequently proved this to be the case, and there is little reason to think Hillary Clinton, who has shifted her rhetoric to the left during the primaries, won’t revert back to the center-right when all is said and done.

The difference between today and the ’90s, however, is that the left is no longer in its last throes, as it was when the Clintons emerged as America’s most powerful couple. With the fall of communism and the global triumph of corporate capitalism, along with the Reagan/Thatcher counterrevolutions, the left — which had become disillusioned and divided (i.e. new left vs old left) — was in no shape to stand up to the tide of reaction. Moreover, when Reagan entered office, economic inequality was close to all time lows, after decades of New Deal liberalism. Today, after nearly 40 years of neoliberalism, economic inequality has returned to historic levels and American militarism has created a dangerously unstable world. Politics have changed with the times, and the American left, politically relevant again, is very much determined to prevent another Clinton administration.

[Human Snorenado]

Trump has cratered; a month ago, I'd tell you he had this shit locked up, but it's increasingly looking like he won't have the 1237 delegates he needs to secure the nomination on the first ballot at the convention, and that there now exists a willingness in the party to go through a "brokered" convention and give the nomination to someone else. I'm not sure who that someone is. It's nuts, Trump is losing due to shitty management (not knowing how to wrangle delegates at county/state conventions) and the narrowed field looks to finally slow his momentum enough to keep him away from the nomination.

All of this, of course, is good news for people who don't want to see a Republican president.

[Phoenix Dark]

Dunno, I haven't parsed the delegate math (lol) but I remember someone saying if he wins California by 7+ he can get back on the path to 1237. Polls show him up around that much in California right now.

The Chicago rally/riot really sparked the beginning of the end, if he loses the nom. I remember him being quite reserved in the debate that happened right before that rally. He seemed to be trying to move into general election phase and calm down GOP power brokers. But that rally pulled him into some crazy fuckery and he never let go lol.

[benjipwns]

Donald Trump has been taking heat for saying that he plans to pay off the entire $19 trillion national debt in eight years while at the same time promising a massive tax cut that would cost $12 trillion and calling for budget-busting spending programs.

Trump told radio host Joe Pags over the weekend that he will do this by putting the squeeze on Japan and appointing “great people” to cut the budget of each federal department “2 or 3 percent.” Such a plan, Trump said, would be “very easy” to pull off.

“It’s possible that if Japan doesn’t want to pay up, we’ll say, ‘Good luck and defend yourself,’” he said. “If that means they’re going to have to arm in some way, they’re going to have to arm in some way. We can’t afford to — we’re paying for the military of Japan. And every time this maniac in North Korea — and it’s a bigger problem for them than it is for us, frankly — every time this maniac in North Korea raises his head, we start doubling up. At one point do people take care of us? We’re a debtor nation. Our country is falling apart. Our infrastructure is dying. We owe all of those trillions of dollars. $19, it’s going to be $21 very soon with that stupid budget that was just passed three months ago, the omnibus budget, at what point do we say, ‘Enough, enough’?”

He predicted that the Japanese government would eventually acquiesce to President Trump’s demand to “pay much more money” for military protection and that Saudi Arabia would also pay up: “They don’t like us so much and you know what, with me, they’re going to like us and they’re going to pay more and they’re going to be very happy, okay?”

Warning that companies are outsourcing all of America’s jobs, Trump said that “we’re not going to have anything left and I know how to stop it in two seconds.”

“I know how to fix it, so easy, that aspect of it,” Trump continued. “And even, you know, the nuclear. I am doing so good on nuclear by people that are fair. What’s happening now is we’re paying for the world’s — we’re like the world’s policeman but they don’t pay us for it. We lose a fortune on the military. You know, our military budget is phenomenally higher than any other budget but it’s not for us, we’re protecting everybody else and we lose a fortune. Frankly, Joe, we lose a fortune on everything we do and we have to make our country strong financially again and if we don’t do that we’re never going to have a strong country again. And I’ll save Social Security. I’ll save things that everyone else says can’t be saved because I’ll bring back all of this money that we’re wasting on other countries.”

“We’re going to have a country like you wouldn’t believe,” he said.

[Brehvolution]

 

Bring 'em all home, Trump.

[Joe Molotov]

“We’re going to have a country like you wouldn’t believe,” he said.

I don't doubt that.

[Trent Dole]

A shame dude's literally a fascist, I actually like some of his other ideas.

[Syph]

What if
contested convention
Paul Ryan
then
VP
Mitt Romney
 

[Phoenix Dark]

I'm gonna be bummed if he's not the nominee. Cruz is boring and creeps people out so much I'll probably feel bad for him by September when he's down 5-10 points. But watching Trump implode and bring the GOP down with him will be entertaining. Even more entertaining: Obama, Bill, and Biden going around the country ethering him.


There is no worry about playing the "race card" with him. You can outright call him a bigot and racist. The thought of Obama going on some late night show and just bodying Trump with back handed fuckery.


The goal should be to bait Trump into calling him the n-word.


Actually Ether isn't even a good example. It's gonna be a celebration of dissing

[benjipwns]

The Trump and Cruz delegates will have to agree to waive/change the RNC's anti-Ron Paul rule. No one's name can be placed in nomination unless they've won eight states in the primaries.

[Syph]

suppose a Cruz/Walker ticket
hmm

[thisismyusername]

I'll tell you how he'd pay for it. He'd raise taxes on millionahs and billionahs to pay for the construction of more wind and solar energy.

derp derp derp

I don't see a problem with that. Only ones that would be opposed are the very people that need to be taxed, IMO.

Frankly, we should be looking at renewable over Nuke anyway. There's a shit load of desert that could be used to power certain cities in the west. The East Coast is the problem, especially with the midwest Tornados but surely there's a solution to ween off Nuke and Coal.

[Mandark]

It's not impossible for it to go to a third candidate coming out of the convention, but reaaaaallllly hard for me to imagine.

During the convention, the delegates and the members of the rules committee will be the ones with the power, not an abstract version of "the party" or "elites" or whatever.  Trump's campaign might be slacking on the delegate stuff, but in this scenario you'd need either 1) 1237 delegates (the vast majority of whom will be committed to Trump/Cruz on the first ballot) that will be willing to support Ryan/Romney/Haley/whoever, or 2) Trump or Cruz to back down and throw their support to another candidate.

[benjipwns]

Frankly, we should be looking at renewable over Nuke anyway. There's a shit load of desert that could be used to power certain cities in the west. The East Coast is the problem, especially with the midwest Tornados but surely there's a solution to ween off Nuke and Coal.

The nuclear is probably the best option for providing a baseload I would assume.