Pro Wrasslin' Thread: I don't know what I just saw

[Phoenix Dark]

I was a Hulkamaniac as a kid, but even then I thought the Warrior was literally super human. My brain just couldn't fathom how he could look like that and not be something more.

RIP

[bork]

He looked realllll red when leaving the ring on Monday.

He appeared to be noticeably out of breath most of the time and seemed to be clutching his chest on occasion.  Sean Waltman said that he seemed pretty "weak" the whole weekend and was always kind of hunched over, like someone who was pretty sick.  Some think he knew his time was coming and wanted to go out "back on top."

[Stoney Mason]

i have real mixed feelings about the guy since he got into using his celebrity to spread homophobic rants and other rightwing nutterisms.

still, it always, always, *always* sucks when a guy dies young and leaves a family behind.  and he was a really memorable wrestler if nothing else.  really knew how to get a crowd going, and his last speech showed that talent never left him.

I think most people feel the same. He was an entertaining wrestler. But a pretty shitty human being.

[Himu]

Punk saved wrestling by leaving.

God bless CM Punk.

Punk has blessed us.


http://www.thecoli.com/threads/real-talk-wm30-post-raw-wm-is-the-bookmark-for-the-new-era.204563/

[Phoenix Dark]

Can you guys expound more on Punk saving WWE, and why WM30 was so well received? I'm not a wrestling fan but am interested in this. Is it a case of getting the old guys out and giving new guys shine?

[Himu]

Can you guys expound more on Punk saving WWE, and why WM30 was so well received? I'm not a wrestling fan but am interested in this. Is it a case of getting the old guys out and giving new guys shine?

No one knows why Punk left. Everything else is conjecture. Some people think he left because Bryan - the people's pick to be champion, was not getting his chance to run with the ball  . It makes sense, because Punk quit the day after Royal Rumble, which had an unanimously poor response from the fanbase. Anyways, Punk COULD have left because he thought the trajectory for the company was looking poor (the audience boo'd Batista - a face I may add - winning the Rumble and Cena vs Orton was receiving jeers, and Batista vs Orton was going to now be the WM main event ). The theme of Royal Rumble was "WE WANT THESE OLDER GUYS TO WIN AND THERE'S NOTHING YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT" Which had a very, very negative response since EVERYONE knew that Batista - the guy who hadn't wrestled in four years and looked like SHIT - was going to waltz in and win the Rumble by simple logic.

It COULD be because Batista was slated to win the belt at WM, and EVERYONE thought that Daniel Bryan deserved his shot at the belt, and Punk, being a vocal disliker of part timers, didn't like that a part timer was taking Bryan's spot at the new WWE champion. It COULD be because due to the WWE Network, WWE were now shifting their pay model for pay per views and wrestlers would get less money. After all, 9.99 a month <<<<<< 50-60 dollars for a ppv. It COULD be because Punk was tired and just needed a break, but now he's missed WM because of it, so that couldn't be it.

Anyways. We, as a fanbase, think that Punk leaving was good because it makes the workers out back less complacent. For one, it opens a new spot. That spot is undoubtedly now Daniel Bryan's, but the lower card now has a spot to fight over. This raises quality as the performers compete.

By leaving, and combined with the RR reaction, the company finally decided to give the ball to Daniel Bryan.

Originally, the idea was for HHH to wrestle Punk at WM and Daniel Bryan vs Sheamus. No one wanted this. We want DB to win the belt. He's our guy, he's the best worker, and the most over wrestler (over means popular with the fans) since The Rock. He DESERVES to win the championship at WM and have his Wrestlemania moment. So a lot of fans started to get pissed. We started boycotts, and some people who went to shows started to try to hijack the show with chants. WWE acknowledged this and without CM Punk around, changed the angle from Punk vs HHH to Bryan vs HHH. But Bryan asked for a stipulation: if he wins, he's throw into the main event match at Mania for the title. This single handedly made the fanbase more positive instead of over night.

At Wrestlemania, aside from Bray Wyatt vs Cena, new, younger talent beat older guys. Every single one. NO ONE wanted Big Show to win the battle royal that was at the show. People wanted Cesaro to win. Cesaro threw Big Show - an Attitude Era vet - over the rope. The Shield did a squash match as they dominated Kane and the New Age Outlaws (Attitude Era vets) and beat them in 3 or so minutes. So we're feeling good. Cena vs Bray had great storytelling with Bray's psychology. Bray didn't HAVE to win to look like a bonafide star. HHH vs Bryan saw Bryan win CLEAN over HHH, that rarely happens. Bryan went on to win the belt and the Undertaker's streak was lost.

Basically, the entire theme with WM30 is that there was a shift, and a deliberate message, that WWE heard us fans, and that we want new blood, and new guard, and a new era of WWE wrestling. Which is the total opposite of our feelings after Royal Rumble, and the day when Punk quit.

All of which started with the departure of CM Punk.

[Himu]

Let's talk about this Paul Heyman interview with Cole. The return of LEGIT MANAGERS!!!



Also can't get enough of those WM30 promo packages

That was no diss to Punk either.

I think he knew shit was fucked up and that the only thing that would "save" the product would be WWEs second biggest star (although apparently he sold more merch than Cena often did) going home and refusing to play. If he'd stayed and played, we would've gotten an okay Punk vs Triple H match, Sheamus vs Bryan (BUT THIS TIME IT'S A REAL MATCH), and Batista versus Orton with Batista winning as a hated champion. I think Sheamus and Bryan have great matches together but I wouldn't want that. Especially when it looked liked Daniel Bryan was going to be Daniel Wyatt for a hot minute.

I miss seeing CM Punk and I think the chanting of his name during GOOD/GREAT matches is the worst fucking thing but I don't hate him. If anything, I respect him more now.

Don't. As I said in the above post, no one knows why he left. Punk has been given the longest champion reign in the modern era. He has one HELL of a money contract and iirc was the highest paid guy on the roster? He leaves the day after Rumble, not even AFTER the show and forces them to change it up before the show starts, doesn't say shit for months, and just disappears. Vince would have given him anything to come back. Instead of burying Punk, like they usually do when someone leaves, they ignored it and pretended it didn't exist. Now it's after Wreslemania, and I don't even miss Punk. His last few months had been and he was not putting forth his full effort. A lot of people think Punk did it for fans, but I don't know about that. The entire thing screams asshole and baby. But hey, it opened a spot and maybe it helped turn around Wrestlemania 30.

[Momo]

[Phoenix Dark]

What do you mean by best/hard workers btw? I thought everything is planned out and staged beforehand, and they gauge who is most popular and let that person win to build a name for himself. Or if it's an up-and-comer, he's someone who the execs have decided to back (give him a cool intro, surprise win, etc).

[Stoney Mason]

What do you mean by best/hard workers btw? I thought everything is planned out and staged beforehand, and they gauge who is most popular and let that person win to build a name for himself. Or if it's an up-and-comer, he's someone who the execs have decided to back (give him a cool intro, surprise win, etc).

Sometimes the plans are bad. And sometimes the people they push are not the people who should be pushed. It's a job like any other that relies a lot on conventional wisdom or repeating past attempts to replicate previous success. But conventional wisdom is not always the correct choice. Sometimes you have to try something different or be a step ahead to create the next big thing.

The WWE had gotten really fat and lazy over the last few years and had been rewarding conventional wisdom too much and the smarter fans had gotten tired of it. The recent bookings have been a recognition of this and an attempt to capitalize off of it by building storylines around it. Smart fans and critics tend to like storylines like this that play off of reality or reward the better wrestlers versus the guys who just look like they should be good wrestlers but may not be.   

[Mandark]

Killing off the Ultimate Warrior shows a real commitment by the WWE to moving away from the older stars, and letting the younger guys take over.

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  :himu

[Himu]

What do you mean by best/hard workers btw?

Stoney answered the rest.

But hard worker = guys who bust their butts. Daniel Bryan would do double duty (twice in a row on free tv) and sometimes TRIPLE duty (three times on free tv) because he's that much of a workhorse and great wrestler. He's the most popular fan choice for two years running and has been popular - highly so - in every city they've visited in that time. We just wanted the guy who deserved it to get the belt and have a long tenure with it. He deserved it and they were going to go with Batista to help promote his movie despite the fan base unanimously not giving a single fuck about Batista/hating Batista.

Liken the belt as the Employee of the Year Award with a big, fat raise. Batista came in after a four year absence, won the Royal Rumble and a shot at the title just because he was back promoting a movie. Daniel Bryan, the guy who does over time, and wrestles 3 matches a night some times, was being put in a program NO ONE wanted to see.

[Phoenix Dark]

That makes sense, thanks.

Do fans feel the same when The Rock comes back? Also is Cena still popular?

[Mandark]

Alternately, think of the old, established stars as old music acts who do the same 6-10 songs on every tour and haven't had a new hit in a decade.  Whereas Daniel Bryan is Kendrick Lamar.

[Himu]

SOME fans (namely smart fans) felt the same when the Rock came back. Placing the Rock in the main event picture when he was not in wrestling shape anymore was annoying. Especially since there were far more deserving people to be in the main event. But the reaction was still smaller compared to when Batista came back, because after all, The Rock is The Rock. People don't see Batista on that level.

Cena is popular in that he sells merch but smart fans are not big on him. Fan reaction to Cena depends on the city.

[Stoney Mason]

The obvious problem with Cena is that his character is so stale. I'm not sure if that's a reluctance on his part to change or on WWE management as I don't follow wrestling closely as I use to.

In the modern age of wrestling you can't be the exact same character for your entire career. You have to evolve it. Cena was interesting when he first hit but he hasn't done anything interesting since then. That's the problem with Cena.

[Himu]

People want Cena to go heel, but there's little money in Cena going heel (see: Austin going heel). Cena keeps his character the same because of Make A Wish. He's made the most Wishes and is a big inspiration to kids. He wants to evolve his character, but not at the expense of disappointing children. WWE also will not allow him to.

[Phoenix Dark]

Alternately, think of the old, established stars as old music acts who do the same 6-10 songs on every tour and haven't had a new hit in a decade.  Whereas Daniel Bryan is Kendrick Lamar.

Thanks for blacksplaining this for me.

[Himu]

"Boreton" is one of the main reasons the main event match at WM30 was great. Give credit where credit is due.

And Undertaker losing the streak is a pretty big change. You're acting like there hasn't been a big change, when there already are big changes.

[MyNameIsMethodis]

am i the only one woh hates bray wyatt, i mean he's good at what he does but his gimmick is stupid and so are his clothes. i wish they'd let harper be the main man of the wyatts

[Himu]

This is for EricP:

http://www.voicesofwrestling.com/2014/04/10/a-beginners-guide-to-new-japan-pro-wrestling/

Should help you a bit if you go to the NJPW and ROH show.

[Trent Dole]

I see Bray and think 'oh look it's Del Rio's lame henchman Husky Harris'. I'll grant him that he's good at the character and lots of the crowd seems to eat it up. But come on, he used to be Fat Fuck. Buying into this is like buying into Albert as Tensai for me. Can't do it.

[Himu]

That makes no sense. Wrestlers go through character changes all the time if they don't click.

[MyNameIsMethodis]

NXT has been great for a while, which Trips runs and now that Trips runs the main show RAW will be great for a while also. Sorry your attitude era is redundant and boring now a days. Embrace the new.

[Shaka Khan]

You guys realize it's fake, right?

[iconoclast]

I think the WWE has been pretty good recently. I mean, 2013 wasn't their best year ever or anything, but there was plenty of great matches between the tag division, Bryan, Cesaro, Orton, Punk, Rollins, the MITB, etc. At least 2014's main event scene should be better now that Bryan's been solidified as a top guy, meaning he'll always get plenty of time to have great matches on PPV (unless they feel the need to do shitty swerve finishes) and Cesaro looks like he's on his way up.

This is for EricP:

http://www.voicesofwrestling.com/2014/04/10/a-beginners-guide-to-new-japan-pro-wrestling/

Should help you a bit if you go to the NJPW and ROH show.

This is useful if you want to start following NJPW, but I think if you're only looking to familiarize yourself with their wrestlers, you should just watch Wrestle Kingdom 7 or 8 (it's basically their WrestleMania). WK7 is the better show (and it's one of the best shows of all time imo), whereas WK8 is more current (which was still great, but a few of the undercard matches weren't all that good). It would be a good way to learn each guy's character, signature spots, finishers, etc. while watching a show that has great production and atmosphere. If you don't care about that stuff and just want to see the best matches, then last year's G1 Climax would be perfect (Day 4 was the best).

[fistfulofmetal]

watching NXT

they actually are doing an angle where Bo is trying to start a BO movement and occupy NXT but everyone in the audience turned their backs on BO. It's pretty good.

[Himu]

Hahahah nxt

[Himu]

"Boreton" is one of the main reasons the main event match at WM30 was great. Give credit where credit is due.

And Undertaker losing the streak is a pretty big change. You're acting like there hasn't been a big change, when there already are big changes.

Boreton is capable of good matches, but let's not pretend like 90% of the time whatever he does or says isn't a snoozefest.

Undertaker losing the streak is big, but so was Cena losing clean to Punk, The Miz being a world champion, etc.

Undertaker shows up like once or maybe twice a year, Brock Lesner shows up a little more but still isn't a regular. While it's a big change and one of the very few things that got people talking about wrestling again, and with WM being fantastic I understand why everyone is high on wrestling right now. But give it time is all I say, WWE switched from great to awful too quickly and frequently for me to jump on the bandwagon. Don't be too ahead of yourself, Himu. You've done that before and came down on it as quickly as you were hyped a lot yourself. If the next few months are great, I'll agree with ya.

I'm just being positive. I think you're confused. I didn't get "hyped". WWE is sporadic in quality. What I've maintained is that WWE currently has its most talented roster, and it annoyed me they weren't using them to their full potential. Right now, I'm just enjoying s great week in wrestling and everything I've wanted them to do in recent years is finally starting to bear fruit. It could start to suck, true. But that's why there's even more reason to embrace and enjoy it. Because nothing lasts forever. So fuck being a negative nancy or devils adcovate. We are in April and WWE at least has at least 6-7 match of the year candidates. We are eating good. Just sit back and enjoy the show, but for now, things are looking up and I'm  hardly alone in this.

I also don't consider The Miz winning to be that big a change. That should have never happened.

[Himu]

Sting signed up to WWE.

http://wrestlinginc.com/wi/news/2014/0410/573061/sting-reportedly-signs-a-deal-with-wwe/

I think the WWE has been pretty good recently. I mean, 2013 wasn't their best year ever or anything, but there was plenty of great matches between the tag division, Bryan, Cesaro, Orton, Punk, Rollins, the MITB, etc. At least 2014's main event scene should be better now that Bryan's been solidified as a top guy, meaning he'll always get plenty of time to have great matches on PPV (unless they feel the need to do shitty swerve finishes) and Cesaro looks like he's on his way up.

This is for EricP:

http://www.voicesofwrestling.com/2014/04/10/a-beginners-guide-to-new-japan-pro-wrestling/

Should help you a bit if you go to the NJPW and ROH show.

This is useful if you want to start following NJPW, but I think if you're only looking to familiarize yourself with their wrestlers, you should just watch Wrestle Kingdom 7 or 8 (it's basically their WrestleMania). WK7 is the better show (and it's one of the best shows of all time imo), whereas WK8 is more current (which was still great, but a few of the undercard matches weren't all that good). It would be a good way to learn each guy's character, signature spots, finishers, etc. while watching a show that has great production and atmosphere. If you don't care about that stuff and just want to see the best matches, then last year's G1 Climax would be perfect (Day 4 was the best).

Agreed completely. WK7

That triple threat match

[Momo]

This wrestling thread is so srs business my hilarious tl;dr gif was ignored, this saddens me

[nachobro]

Sting 

[Himu]

Holy shit. An Intercontinental Championship tournament all Raw. The IC belt actually being important again?!

[Junpei the Tracer!]

Oh wow I never seen Paige before this RAW.

  So pale and beautiful~

[Himu]

Watch Paige vs Emma at NXT Arrival. Runner up for match of the year (WWE-wise) so far.

[nachobro]

For no Dbrine, that was a pretty good Raw.

[Himu]

Great Raw. Love the IC tourney. It is like they're fixing all my issues with WWE recently. They can't keep this up. Making the IC belt actually important.

[nachobro]

Can't wait to see RVD win the IC title at Extreme Rules

[fistfulofmetal]

Pretty obvious it'll be Cesaro.

[nachobro]

I figure they are gonna have Swagger and/or Zeb fuck it up for Cesaro somehow and set them up for an ER match.

[bork]

Did anyone watch Legends House?  I gotta check that out today or tomorrow.

Anyway, ADAM ROSE!

[nachobro]

Legends House was pretty funny. Piper is hilarious.

[Himu]

Pat Patterson is hilarious on Legends' House. you guys have to watch. It's not Total Divas level, but it's still good.

Also, the Warrior doc on WWE Network. Wow.

[Himu]

seriously that warrior doc made me cry

[nachobro]

When Vince and HHH tear up  near the end I was  :'(

[Momo]

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=161432803&p=1234517223&viewfull=1#post1234517223

Bryan as the defending champ has Karate Kind Part 3 all over it. Part one was great with the underdog, Daniel Laruso, overcoming the odds to win at the All Valley Karate Tournament. Part 2 was a nice twist on the theme. Daniel Laruso went to Okinawa to help Mr Miyagi tie up his lose ends; but D-Bry has no Mr Miyagi, so we skip right to Part 3. Daniel Lauruso has to fight against the broken down Sensei John Kreese's quest for revenge. In this instance the part of Kreese is played by HHH. If you recall, Kreese recruited Terry Silver and Karate's Bad Boy Mike Barnes (ie. Orton and Batista)... as you also should recall, Karate Kid Part 3 kind of sucked balls.

 

[Momo]

[bork]

I wonder how many Slim Jim commercials are filming in heaven now

[nachobro]

RVD! 

[bork]

Re: RAW

Daniel Bryan as champ already irrelevant compared to how they pushed The Evolution/Shield and Cena/Wyatt Family storylines.   

Barrett over Sheamuzzzzzzzzz = 

RVD over Cesaro, even with interference from Thwagger = 

I want to see Cesaro as IC champ, bringing prestige back to the belt, with Heyman cutting crazy-awesome promos making the title seem like something worthwhile again.

Paige is not impressing me.  Neither is Emma.  Sorry.  Layla though

Please hurry and end the Cena/Wyatt storyline.  Cena is so fucking boring.  I mean, they keep teasing that this could lead to a heel turn for him, but we know that isn't going to happen, so zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

I still mark for the Evolution theme.   

[Himu]

Paige doesn't impress me on Raw. I like Emma more but GET HER AWAY FROM SANTINO.

The whole Cesaro thing is odd. Cesaro is the best choice for IC belt. More than that, his match with RVD sucked. I was also confused. Paul was getting heel heat but Cesaro wants to get face pops. Then Swagger,  a heel comes out and beats up on Cesaro, and RVD, the face acts like a heel. Just confusing. Make Cesaro go full heel to get heat and turn him later. This shit they're doing is head scratching. Barrett doing over Sheamuzzzz was indeed

[Himu]

http://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/comments/23nfbq/tonights_rvdcesaro_segment_spoilers/

Seems everyone is confused.

Also, Bryan's dad died.

[bork]

Oh, I hate Cesaro's new music, too.  Wish they brought the old theme back.   

Also, Bryan's dad died.

Damn 

[nachobro]

Yeah let Cesaro keep the Patriot theme and give Swagger some new mess instead 

And RIP Dad Bryan. That sucks.

[Himu]

I'm pretty sure Cesaro's new music is a placeholder.

[Trent Dole]

Either of Cesaro's old themes would be better than his current one, Bryan getting slaughtered is just him being written off the shows to go to his dad's funeral (right after being away for his wedding no less) and yes, Cena sucks. I've come around on crazy cult man Bray though. That promo last night with the two family members just lurking eerily in that lighting.

[archie4208]

[nachobro]

Six hours til midget wrasslin!! GET HYPE!! 

[Eric P]

the ring of honor / japan wrestling tickets sold out before i could get them

but i've been watching ROH's show on their website and it's pretty fun.  Lots of agility in the two episodes i've seen instead of just feats of strength.

still on the fence about seeing Chikara live.

[bork]

Six hours til midget wrasslin!! GET HYPE!! 

I kind of forgot Extreme Rules was tonight.  Will watch but am not too hyped for it.