Dragon Ball Thread - RIP sensei

[Shaka Khan]

I started watching DBZ subbed on Hulu. Not sure if that's Kai or not. I heard Kai cuts some of the fat? If so where can I watch it?

I have no shame. It's about time I watched this for history's sake rather than rely on what I know from internet memes and playing the PS2 games.

[Himu]

I started watching DBZ subbed on Hulu. Not sure if that's Kai or not. I heard Kai cuts some of the fat? If so where can I watch it?

I have no shame. It's about time I watched this for history's sake rather than rely on what I know from internet memes and playing the PS2 games.

Pirate Kai.

[Himu]

My question is how much footage of Piccolo, Tien and Krillin standing on the sidelines looking frustrated at their complete irrelevance are we going to get?

DBZ probably gave us a couple dozen hours of Piccolo, Tien and Krillin looking frustrated on the sidelines. Now that the power gap between them and the Saiyans is even more dramatic, can Super top this?

Since Piccolo was all by his lonesome watching Gohan from afar, I think we are in for a redemption arc for Piccolo.

[Rufus]

(Image removed from quote.)

He was at least robust enough to keep all his limbs attached. Being cratered like that would have dismembered an ordinary human, I'm sure.

[Kara]

Rufus how many Yamcha wall scrolls you got.

[Rufus]

 The walls of my cell are as bare as my soul.

[Shaka Khan]

I started watching DBZ subbed on Hulu. Not sure if that's Kai or not. I heard Kai cuts some of the fat? If so where can I watch it?

I have no shame. It's about time I watched this for history's sake rather than rely on what I know from internet memes and playing the PS2 games.

Pirate Kai.

Is it so different/better that it's worth pirating, is my question.

[Himu]

I started watching DBZ subbed on Hulu. Not sure if that's Kai or not. I heard Kai cuts some of the fat? If so where can I watch it?

I have no shame. It's about time I watched this for history's sake rather than rely on what I know from internet memes and playing the PS2 games.

Pirate Kai.

Is it so different/better that it's worth pirating, is my question.

YES. The answer is yes.

Kai has:

1. No filler.

2. Better direction and editing. No AUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH constipated screaming for five minutes here. Much tighter direction and editing that makes for more tension.

3. Fast pace. The first arc is over with within 20 episodes. Before, it took about 40 episodes.

4. More appropriate music that adds to the better direction.

5. Is pretty much the manga in video form, which is the highest compliment I can give because the manga is - worthy in itself.

[Shaka Khan]

Holy shit.

Pirating.

[bork]

Holy shit.

Pirating.

Better yet- just read the manga.  All of it, starting when Goku was a kid, from start to finish.  It will not only go much faster, but the artwork will stay consistent throughout.

[Himu]

Dragon Ball Kai and Dragon Ball manga are the only ways to experience Dragon Ball. *crosses arms*

[Madrun Badrun]

Shaka did you watch dragon ball first?

[Shaka Khan]

No. How's the pace of Dragon Ball compared to Z/Kai?

 The first 3 episodes of Kai covered 6-7 episodes of vanilla Z.

[Oblivion]

Yeah, DBZ Kai is great. It gets rid of the show's biggest weakness: filler episodes and stupid unnecessary, long power up/staring/screaming scenes. Makes the show infinitely more tolerable. My only complaint is that they kinda go a bit TOO far in this extreme. The fight with Vegeta and final form Freeza literally took less than 5 minutes.

But still, I'd take a DBZ with the fat trimmed than how it originally was, 12 times out of 10.

It's stupid as fuck but at least it's explained: the tail is a genetic weak link and he and Trunks weren't born with tails. It makes sense and follows the basic contuiity of the series: Gohan is for practical purposes, stronger than Goku and Vegeta because he's mixed with human blood. It's revealed at the beginning of the show that Saiyan blood and Human blood mix well and make for stronger warriors. Vegeta and Nappa literally come to Earth because they want to mate with human women to bear them children as warriors. Goten, being born without a tail, has stronger fight potential than Gohan. That doesn't make the way he easily achieves it okay, and it's a large point as to why I said on the previous page that Super Saiyan is a ability/power up, but in the scope of the story, it makes sense.

What? If that were true, then Gohan's powerup wouldn't have been a shock to Raditz.

[bork]

The fight with Vegeta and final form Freeza literally took less than 5 minutes.

The latter was supposed to take that long.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Freeza said the planet would blow up in five minutes, and then we got like 30 more episodes of him fighting Goku and Goku getting to and escaping in a spaceship.   

[close]

[Himu]

Yeah, DBZ Kai is great. It gets rid of the show's biggest weakness: filler episodes and stupid unnecessary, long power up/staring/screaming scenes. Makes the show infinitely more tolerable. My only complaint is that they kinda go a bit TOO far in this extreme. The fight with Vegeta and final form Freeza literally took less than 5 minutes.

But still, I'd take a DBZ with the fat trimmed than how it originally was, 12 times out of 10.

It's stupid as fuck but at least it's explained: the tail is a genetic weak link and he and Trunks weren't born with tails. It makes sense and follows the basic contuiity of the series: Gohan is for practical purposes, stronger than Goku and Vegeta because he's mixed with human blood. It's revealed at the beginning of the show that Saiyan blood and Human blood mix well and make for stronger warriors. Vegeta and Nappa literally come to Earth because they want to mate with human women to bear them children as warriors. Goten, being born without a tail, has stronger fight potential than Gohan. That doesn't make the way he easily achieves it okay, and it's a large point as to why I said on the previous page that Super Saiyan is a ability/power up, but in the scope of the story, it makes sense.

What? If that were true, then Gohan's powerup wouldn't have been a shock to Raditz.

It was a shock. But he realized and said it when he was going to kill gohan after he headbutted radditz like a G. He says flat on it "he has a stronger power level than either of you" despite his age and this is due to mixing of human and Saiyan blood. Watch the scene again. Shit is explained clear as day.

Nappa and Vegeta heard everything on the scouter, including the part about strong mixture of human blood and set out.

[Madrun Badrun]

No. How's the pace of Dragon Ball compared to Z/Kai?

 The first 3 episodes of Kai covered 6-7 episodes of vanilla Z.

Don't know as I haven't watched Z yet.  Its gets kinda slow in parts but its actually a pretty funny show. 

[bork]

No. How's the pace of Dragon Ball compared to Z/Kai?

READ.  THE.  COMICS.

[Himu]

Yeah, DBZ Kai is great. It gets rid of the show's biggest weakness: filler episodes and stupid unnecessary, long power up/staring/screaming scenes. Makes the show infinitely more tolerable. My only complaint is that they kinda go a bit TOO far in this extreme. The fight with Vegeta and final form Freeza literally took less than 5 minutes.

But still, I'd take a DBZ with the fat trimmed than how it originally was, 12 times out of 10.

It's stupid as fuck but at least it's explained: the tail is a genetic weak link and he and Trunks weren't born with tails. It makes sense and follows the basic contuiity of the series: Gohan is for practical purposes, stronger than Goku and Vegeta because he's mixed with human blood. It's revealed at the beginning of the show that Saiyan blood and Human blood mix well and make for stronger warriors. Vegeta and Nappa literally come to Earth because they want to mate with human women to bear them children as warriors. Goten, being born without a tail, has stronger fight potential than Gohan. That doesn't make the way he easily achieves it okay, and it's a large point as to why I said on the previous page that Super Saiyan is a ability/power up, but in the scope of the story, it makes sense.

What? If that were true, then Gohan's powerup wouldn't have been a shock to Raditz.

It was a shock. But he realized and said it when he was going to kill gohan after he headbutted radditz like a G. He says flat on it "he has a stronger power level than either of you" despite his age and this is due to mixing of human and Saiyan blood. Watch the scene again. Shit is explained clear as day.

Nappa and Vegeta heard everything on the scouter, including the part about strong mixture of human blood and set out.

Andddd here you go.



Also:

[Yulwei]

Hmm so apparently this is going to retell the story of BoG? Guess I'll wait till a good number of eps are out before tuning in

[bork]

Hmm so apparently this is going to retell the story of BoG? Guess I'll wait till a good number of eps are out before tuning in

Apparently the plan is to make TV versions of both the Battle Of The Gods and Resurrection Of Freeza storylines (WHY) and then move onto Goku and company experiencing opponents from and/or going to a brand-new universe, which the BoG movie hinted at.  That last storyline seems interesting.  Movie retread storylines do not.  So maybe we'll get an actual new storyline within a year or three. 

[Himu]

Probably because not everyone has seen BoG or RoF and they seem crucial to the story. It also seems that BoG and RoF were tests of the market to see if there's still demand for Dragon Ball after 20 years before dedicating and sinking time into a new long tv series. Hence, less risk that way.

[bork]

Probably because not everyone has seen BoG or RoF and they seem crucial to the story. It also seems that BoG and RoF were tests of the market to see if there's still demand for Dragon Ball after 20 years before dedicating and sinking time into a new long tv series. Hence, less risk that way.

They could have easily just broken the movies up into a couple of episodes instead if that was really a concern.

[Himu]

Either way, I don't imagine these arc retellings will last long, and given the entertaining episodes so far, I really don't even give a shit.

[Yulwei]

Hmm so apparently this is going to retell the story of BoG? Guess I'll wait till a good number of eps are out before tuning in

Apparently the plan is to make TV versions of both the Battle Of The Gods and Resurrection Of Freeza storylines (WHY) and then move onto Goku and company experiencing opponents from and/or going to a brand-new universe, which the BoG movie hinted at.  That last storyline seems interesting.  Movie retread storylines do not.  So maybe we'll get an actual new storyline within a year or three.

The new movie as well? 

The whole multiverse stuff which was brought up towards the end of BoG was what really interested me as well. Here's to hoping the pacing isn't like pre-Kai DBZ, or we really will be waiting a year(s) for the new stuff lol.

[Madrun Badrun]

Watching Kai now.  So Goku is distinguished mentally-challenged because he hit his head as a kid?

[Himu]

Goku is dumb because he was raised in the country and beat up dinosaurs his entire childhood without much if anything in the way of civilization. Pretty sure his grandpa had been dead for a while so there really wasn't anyone there to teach him. He's a wild boy when Bulma finds him and knows nothing in the way of societal matters. He just likes fighting (Saiyan blood).

[bork]

He just likes fighting because he's based on Sun Wukong.

[bork]

I want them to go to an alternate universe where the human characters are the strongest and the aliens are the weak ones.  That would make for some fun battles.

[Madrun Badrun]

Kai: Gohan better not be a whinny bitch the whole series.

[Oblivion]

Yeah, DBZ Kai is great. It gets rid of the show's biggest weakness: filler episodes and stupid unnecessary, long power up/staring/screaming scenes. Makes the show infinitely more tolerable. My only complaint is that they kinda go a bit TOO far in this extreme. The fight with Vegeta and final form Freeza literally took less than 5 minutes.

But still, I'd take a DBZ with the fat trimmed than how it originally was, 12 times out of 10.

It's stupid as fuck but at least it's explained: the tail is a genetic weak link and he and Trunks weren't born with tails. It makes sense and follows the basic contuiity of the series: Gohan is for practical purposes, stronger than Goku and Vegeta because he's mixed with human blood. It's revealed at the beginning of the show that Saiyan blood and Human blood mix well and make for stronger warriors. Vegeta and Nappa literally come to Earth because they want to mate with human women to bear them children as warriors. Goten, being born without a tail, has stronger fight potential than Gohan. That doesn't make the way he easily achieves it okay, and it's a large point as to why I said on the previous page that Super Saiyan is a ability/power up, but in the scope of the story, it makes sense.

What? If that were true, then Gohan's powerup wouldn't have been a shock to Raditz.

It was a shock. But he realized and said it when he was going to kill gohan after he headbutted radditz like a G. He says flat on it "he has a stronger power level than either of you" despite his age and this is due to mixing of human and Saiyan blood. Watch the scene again. Shit is explained clear as day.

Nappa and Vegeta heard everything on the scouter, including the part about strong mixture of human blood and set out.

Andddd here you go.

(Image removed from quote.)

He doesn't say anything about Gohan's power being the result of his mixed blood.

(Image removed from quote.)

I do remember reading that. However, it clearly demonstrates that they weren't coming with the goal of making babies, Himu-chan.

[Himu]

He just likes fighting because he's based on Sun Wukong.

Sun Wukong is a lot more mischievous than Goku, though. Goku is a good kid even if he's naive. Wukong is a naive to the point of unintentional assholery.

[Himu]

Yeah, DBZ Kai is great. It gets rid of the show's biggest weakness: filler episodes and stupid unnecessary, long power up/staring/screaming scenes. Makes the show infinitely more tolerable. My only complaint is that they kinda go a bit TOO far in this extreme. The fight with Vegeta and final form Freeza literally took less than 5 minutes.

But still, I'd take a DBZ with the fat trimmed than how it originally was, 12 times out of 10.

It's stupid as fuck but at least it's explained: the tail is a genetic weak link and he and Trunks weren't born with tails. It makes sense and follows the basic contuiity of the series: Gohan is for practical purposes, stronger than Goku and Vegeta because he's mixed with human blood. It's revealed at the beginning of the show that Saiyan blood and Human blood mix well and make for stronger warriors. Vegeta and Nappa literally come to Earth because they want to mate with human women to bear them children as warriors. Goten, being born without a tail, has stronger fight potential than Gohan. That doesn't make the way he easily achieves it okay, and it's a large point as to why I said on the previous page that Super Saiyan is a ability/power up, but in the scope of the story, it makes sense.

What? If that were true, then Gohan's powerup wouldn't have been a shock to Raditz.

It was a shock. But he realized and said it when he was going to kill gohan after he headbutted radditz like a G. He says flat on it "he has a stronger power level than either of you" despite his age and this is due to mixing of human and Saiyan blood. Watch the scene again. Shit is explained clear as day.

Nappa and Vegeta heard everything on the scouter, including the part about strong mixture of human blood and set out.

Andddd here you go.

(Image removed from quote.)

He doesn't say anything about Gohan's power being the result of his mixed blood.

(Image removed from quote.)

I do remember reading that. However, it clearly demonstrates that they weren't coming with the goal of making babies, Himu-chan.

Nappa pretty much confirms Gohan's power is due to his mixed blood. Radditz hints at it. I didn't have the exact details at the time because it's been a while but I was right, just not completely so. But ultimately, they did say this, and Nappa definitely brings it up briefly. The mixed blood line being a strong hybrid is also a confirmation in many other areas in the series.

[Shaka Khan]

I reached the end of Vegeta's 3 hours wait for Kakarot. I'm enjoying this and I ain't even ashamed. The editing is really great, cuts the fat like everyone said giving more focus to other areas— for example I forgot how humorous and unserious the series can be. I'm not sure if this tone will continue further in, though.

But I will say, there were instances where I felt the same way Oblivion did about the editing. It can get too excessive? at times it felt like it was edited for existing fans who just wanted to review/rewatch the show, and not for first timers like me. I felt rushed for example when Piccolo was training Gohan. Like, out of nowhere Gohan suddenly was wearing the purple garb. Was there any context to this?

If not, then this is another problem: whenever I feel like I missed something I'll blame the editing even if there were none.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Look at this long DBZ post, brehs. This is an L I never thought I'd ever have to take.

[close]

[Madrun Badrun]

Ya I'm into the Cell saga.  This is good.  Dragon Ball was funnier though.  I feel like lots of jokes got cut. 

[PlayDat]

For as ridiculous as some of the plot-lines can be I think I prefer the times when the show takes itself seriously.  It's the reason why I don't like Dragon Ball as much and have probably watched less than a couple dozen episodes total.  GT was pretty jokey early on too which made me quit watching for a while.

I'm mostly watching to see people beat each other up.  Humor gets in the way of that.

[Oblivion]

Anyone got a link to the new episode?

[Himu]

I reached the end of Vegeta's 3 hours wait for Kakarot. I'm enjoying this and I ain't even ashamed. The editing is really great, cuts the fat like everyone said giving more focus to other areas— for example I forgot how humorous and unserious the series can be. I'm not sure if this tone will continue further in, though.

But I will say, there were instances where I felt the same way Oblivion did about the editing. It can get too excessive? at times it felt like it was edited for existing fans who just wanted to review/rewatch the show, and not for first timers like me. I felt rushed for example when Piccolo was training Gohan. Like, out of nowhere Gohan suddenly was wearing the purple garb. Was there any context to this?

If not, then this is another problem: whenever I feel like I missed something I'll blame the editing even if there were none.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Look at this long DBZ post, brehs. This is an L I never thought I'd ever have to take.

[close]

Fucking told you. DBZ  owns and people who hate it on are anime hipsters, real talk. It has/had its flaws, but it influenced an entire generation/literally created an entire genre/is the most popular anime ever besides maybe one piece idk for a REASON. The only bad arc is Buu and even that has classic moments.

You need to read Dragon Ball.

As for what happened with Gohan's purple gi. it's like that in the manga. The original anime added a scene where Piccolo says he refuses to let Gohan forget who trained him, because Gohan had Goku's gi and Piccolo took pride on his creation. It's not really an important detail, though, and they mention Gohan's use of the gi after the Saiyan Saga (what you're watching) anyways. As said, Kai is faithful to the manga, and pretty much everything you're seeing is right from those pages. So anything you consider to be confusing due to editing or whatever, just have patience. The story is intact.

[Himu]

Ya I'm into the Cell saga.  This is good.  Dragon Ball was funnier though.  I feel like lots of jokes got cut.

I like that they're both fairly different. Remember that a giant chunk of DB is similar to DBZ in tone though. Super and BOGT are great though because they are a mixture of both styles: comedic Akira Toriyama DB and kick ass action fest Toriyama DB.

[Shaka Khan]

I think I'm almost at the point of the first Super Sayian transformation. I just love that this is how Goku imagines Vegeta in his head:



This show is mad homo.

[Himu]

What did you think of the Namek saga? Addictive, huh?

[Shaka Khan]

The fights were good, tho Freeza's is dragging a little. The arc was dragged down by the search of dragon balls. Specifically when everyone was stealing everyone else's stash. Too cartoony for my taste.

[Himu]

I liked the dragon ball race. Adventure is a big part of the allure of DB for me. It's probably hard for me to judge it harshly because I started watching during the Namek arc, and it's entirely what I think of when I think of Dragon Ball because of that. 

It should be noted that originally, Freeza was supposed to be the final boss of the overall series and the series was supposed to end after Namek. Hence the epic showdown with Freeza.

[Madrun Badrun]

I just realized yesterday that not all of kia is dubbed.  FUCK.

[Kara]

I think I'm almost at the point of the first Super Sayian transformation. I just love that this is how Goku imagines Vegeta in his head:

(Image removed from quote.)

This show is mad homo.

Prince of all Saiyans indeed.

[Tasty]

I liked the dragon ball race. Adventure is a big part of the allure of DB for me. It's probably hard for me to judge it harshly because I started watching during the Namek arc, and it's entirely what I think of when I think of Dragon Ball because of that. 

It should be noted that originally, Freeza was supposed to be the final boss of the overall series and the series was supposed to end after Namek. Hence the epic showdown with Freeza.

This has been said throughout the years but there's little basis in reality. He probably didn't have a plan beyond Freeza, but Toriyama rarely planned things period.

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/intended-end/freeza/

[Himu]

Ah. Didn't he say he wanted it to end at Cell at least? I mean, it's the perfect point to.

[Tasty]

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/intended-end/cell/

Part of the whole package of rumors about Toriyama’s thwarted plans of ending the series with the Freeza arc is that, once that plan fell through, he then tried to end it after the Cell Games only to fail once more. All the same things that can be said about the supposed Freeza ending can be said here too: Toriyama has never said such a thing in interviews.

Though, he didn't plan on 17, 18, or Cell (you can thank his editors for them.)

[Shaka Khan]

Now, I obviously haven't watched the Android/Cell and Buu sagas yet, but what struck me from the DBZ games (w/ fleshed-out story modes) is that no villain comes close to Freeza in terms of backstory (history/relationship with saiyans). The fight is a lot more personal.

It doesn't help that I feel the other two major villains, design-wise, are not as original as Freeza and feel somewhat derivative. I mean Cell literally borrows features from other characters, and so does Buu, due to their abilities/backstory.

Anyhow, unless I change my mind after completing the show, I think Freeza is Goku's ultimate nemesis. Resurrection F only supports that. 

omg I sound like everyone I used to troll online. Hara kiri ki blast pls.

[Himu]

Cell's designs change over time. He doesn't have just one design, much like Freeza. And Cell...well, you'll see. Also, Cell iirc, doesn't steal abilities. He eats people for consumption, hence cell.

[Shaka Khan]

He eats people for consumption, hence cell.

Oh. I had no idea.

In that case who's your favorite villain, from a compatibility stand-point and with all what you said about the intended end in mind?

Outdoing oneself creatively after a decided retirement... it's a struggle.

[Himu]

The best villain is Dragon Ball is a toss up between Piccolo and Freeza. Story-wise Piccolo; battle-wise Freeza. From a story point of view, Vegeta is a good pick as well, but their relationship isn't the same and is more of a series wide rivalry. Both Piccolo and Freeza forced Goku into doing extremes and being a hardened warrior. That said, I think I like the Androids/Cell more, because they forced that same amount of dedication out of every single character. Added bonus is Tienshenhan for being such a badass rival.

Best arcs in DB are Red Ribbon, Piccolo, Saiyan, Namek, and Android/Cell. My personal favorite is Android/Cell.

[Himu]

Also, Gohan was my favorite character as a kid.

[Shaka Khan]

My dear Himu, you have no idea how much I'd love to fly you here, order a couple of pizzas and watch some Dragon Ball Z together. You're more information and fun resource than any of these wikis.

And when we're done watching DBZ, we can start watching the original DB and you can fill me in on all the details, historical contexts and trivia. And whenever we get bored, we can play a few Ultra Street Fighter IV matches. I'll let you win because I love you when you smile.

Then the doorbell will ring— Hey! it's Tien delivering more pizzas with Yamcha, Esch, and Positive Touch right behind him. We'll eat a few pieces, play some Smash matches, and afterwards we'll have one giant, greasy orgy... But only if you say yes. Because we live in post-Gamergate world and we respect your choices, body and mind, m'lady.

Wow. Now fanfiction. Thanks, Toriyama.

[Himu]

...



Thanks! I think.

[Shaka Khan]

I'm slightly getting bored of Goku taking 5 at the start of every big event, only to jump back in when most of his pals are FUBAR.

Vegeta/Nappa fight: Taking his sweet time traveling from King Kai's domain
Namek: Taking his sweet time in a spaceship
Freeza's fight: Taking his sweet time in a healing chamber
Android 20 and 19: Taking his sweet time... oh wait, heart attack.

[Himu]

Depending on who your favorite character is, you will grow to loathe Goku because he always steals the glory. *shakes fist*

In any case, Android/Cell is a lot different than other arcs because it's not the Goku Show.

[Shaka Khan]

Future Trunks.

[Tasty]

Future Trunks is the best-developed character this side of Gohan and Vegeta.

History of Trunks is GOAT.

[Himu]

History of Trunks

Future Trunks