STAR CITIZEN: JEU PRÉFÉRÉ DE VOMKRIEGE

[archie4208]

Star Citizen in a nutshell.

[VomKriege]

You know, yesterday I was thinking that this thing could have a long fall, considering the amount of talent, funds and work (which I'm sure is quite a few, I certainly believe Roberts if 24/7 on the job). But the more you dig, the more surreal it gets and it has been rotting long enough for the stench to become noticeable and the stories to circulate in the industry. At this rate I think there will be serious probing in the budgeting down the line. Wouldn't be surprised by all info there was strictly compartimented by studio...

The agony could be proctated tho. The fans were all like "We'll serve you crow at CitizenCon, just you wait haters" and you know some of them will sink with the ship or at least wait one or two years still.

EDIT: Well, holy shit, if the sources are genuine, CIG/RSI having only 8m at the bank now might be true.

"He's letting go people (sic) necessary to complete the game, but then wants to hire a professional linguist to create three brand new alien languages. He's making this entire project impossible," CS3 added.

 

[bluemax]

Like invoking Gamer Gate seems like the worst fucking idea in the world. Why would he even bring that up? No rational person would do that.

This is seriously just two trolls who haven't made video games in over 30 years combined arguing over who is the bigger scam artist.

[Cerveza mas fina]

I dunno about you guys but I got more than my moneys worth out of this already

[VomKriege]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=180460458&postcount=103

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=180461950&postcount=132

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=180462376&postcount=135

Schreier getting reckt.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=180462920&postcount=140

"You sound like a Gamergater" 

[Great Rumbler]

Like invoking Gamer Gate seems like the worst fucking idea in the world. Why would he even bring that up? No rational person would do that.

This is seriously just two trolls who haven't made video games in over 30 years combined arguing over who is the bigger scam artist.

Star Citizen's funding shot up from an average of about $20k per day to $340k today.

[Barry Egan]

Like invoking Gamer Gate seems like the worst fucking idea in the world. Why would he even bring that up? No rational person would do that.

This is seriously just two trolls who haven't made video games in over 30 years combined arguing over who is the bigger scam artist.

Star Citizen's funding shot up from an average of about $20k per day to $340k today.

Fortunately or unfortunately, this is because CIG unveiled a new ship last night that cost $900 to purchase. 

$900. 

[Barry Egan]

I want links of the fanboys losing their minds.

This is pretty good:

I hereby declare war on The Escapist.

This is a personal decision I have made due to the recent bullshit articles about Star Citizen. I'm sick and tired of journalists thinking they can get away with whatever the hell they damn well like.

I have formally given The Escapist 24 hours to take down their articles and make a formal apology.

If this does not happen, I will make it my mission to spread the truth of their idiocy by sharing our story and this link https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14979-Chairmans-Response-To-The-Escapist in as many comment sections, forums and facebook groups, as well as repeateded emails to any contact details I can find for The Escapist.

I call upon you, the defenders of our community, our frienships, CR's reputation and our game to do the same.

This war is in no way related to CiG.

The Escapist - You have 23 hours remaining.

[Rufus]

Declare jihad on a video games site...

[Positive Touch]

we have the tech industry too much power and now we will all suffer

[VomKriege]

The Escapist articles seems to lift heavily from Glassdoor reviews, including very specific accusations. Did they even bother to contact actual sources  ? With any normal journalist I would think so, but with videogame ones you cannot be sure...

I'm pretty certain SC is heading to a very bad place as it is. Even if it's not the case, I think it does deserve to be covered in depth by the press. Don't half ass it if you do that tho.

[DCharlieJP]

the article was written by one of the GGers that The Escapist took on board. Looks like some top ethics based journalism! 

[Barry Egan]

The Escapist articles seems to lift heavily from Glassdoor reviews, including very specific accusations. Did they even bother to contact actual sources  ? With any normal journalist I would think so, but with videogame ones you cannot be sure...

I'm pretty certain SC is heading to a very bad place as it is. Even if it's not the case, I think it does deserve to be covered in depth by the press. Don't half ass it if you do that tho.

Wouldn't it make sense that the people who are willing to share their experience on glassdoor would be the ones who would willingly be interviewed by the press?  That doesn't really work as a refutation of the article, especially since it goes in to much more detail and claims many more sources than the amount of glassdoor reviews it "reflects". 

I don't really see how the authors positions on Gamergate really have anything to do with the validity of the article, especially since the underlying claim of "her side" is that misogyny is bad? 

 In any case, here's yet another article confirming that people from within the company have been talking about what a disaster the project has been for a while now: http://www.tentonhammer.com/columns/respawn/star-citizens-latest-conflict-ex-employee-dissension-and-roberts-intervention

Meanwhile, The Escapist article mirrors the many emails I’ve been receiving for years about work conditions at CIG, which I believe is also where much of Derek Smart’s rhetoric has been coming from – since I’m sure the same people have spoken to him as well.

Interestingly enough, this results in Chris Roberts blaming a lot of it on Derek Smart, but I can easily attest that the emails about work conditions and that rhetoric have been around awhile.

[Great Rumbler]

I don't really see how the authors positions on Gamergate really have anything to do with the validity of the article, especially since the underlying claim of "her side" is that misogyny is bad? 

Her side is the one that supports ethics in games journalism.

That's what Roberts was referring to in his open letter.

[Barry Egan]

Oh.  Well that's dumb.  Carry on.

[VomKriege]

My understanding is that Glassdoor is completely anonymous for readers. Considering how similar the wording is in some parts, it's not out of the realm of possibility that the article stopped at that and mashed it with other more or less dubious sources... I mean, VG press, amirite ?

I agree it wouldn't refute any core issues.

[Tasty]

I want links of the fanboys losing their minds.

This is pretty good:

I hereby declare war on The Escapist.

This is a personal decision I have made due to the recent bullshit articles about Star Citizen. I'm sick and tired of journalists thinking they can get away with whatever the hell they damn well like.

I have formally given The Escapist 24 hours to take down their articles and make a formal apology.

If this does not happen, I will make it my mission to spread the truth of their idiocy by sharing our story and this link https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14979-Chairmans-Response-To-The-Escapist in as many comment sections, forums and facebook groups, as well as repeateded emails to any contact details I can find for The Escapist.

I call upon you, the defenders of our community, our frienships, CR's reputation and our game to do the same.

This war is in no way related to CiG.

The Escapist - You have 23 hours remaining.

This is one of the most pathetic things I've ever read, and I posted on GAF for six years.

[VomKriege]

To elaborate (was on the mobile earlier), I'm just saying if you're making a paper where you relay accusations of workplace racism and embezzlement, you better have airtight method with your sources. The Escapist claims they did and published some clarification about that.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/video-games/14727-The-Escapist-Explains-Its-Star-Citizen-Sources-Vetting-and-Respo

That being said, it's painfully evident that the sudden minute scrutiny about the journalist method in the threads about this over the Internet is either ignorance (If they are honest why are they anonymous  ), obfuscation or self-delusion by fans who are are ready to argue everything... but the key issue itself.

Barring the most extreme claims (which are pretty heavy and where the debate about printing them or not has some merit), the Escapist is merely saying what several other outlets have gathered from former employees. N'en déplaise to the fans and backers of the game, those concerns are perfectly valid because to an outside observer the first impression is to see what's clearly predatory funding to fuel a project that can only be mismanaged considering they're trying to do the design, budget, dev and marketing all at once.

[VomKriege]

I think SC is also a good test case for how well (or bad) "crowdfunding" scales up. Fans insist that CIG/RSI are doing a ton of communication. It's true... to the point that as an outsider it's actually pretty much impossible to find easily the actual meaningful infos. The marketing torrent and the prominence of Space Brother Number One Roberts actually looks more detrimental than anything to the actual game making part, but of course it's not like they could go silent running underwater after being entrusted with 90m $ by thousands of people. However flowed the traditional model of big publishing is, it does highlight that sometimes it may makes more sense...

Meanwhile :

[bluemax]

The panel where the evil producers are using the F2P/P2W mechanics to save themselves is incredibly delicious given what Star Citizen has done.

[Steve Contra]

Dreams.  Dreams happen now. 

[Rufus]

The panel where the evil producers are using the F2P/P2W mechanics to save themselves is incredibly delicious given what Star Citizen has done.

Seriously. It looks like an unintentional pyramid scheme now where people 'invest' in limited ships and such that they hope to sell on down the line.

[Joe Molotov]

Dreams.  Dreams happen now. 

Shhh, no dreams. Only tears now.

[recursivelyenumerable]

at least for us normies this drama is way more entertaining and epic than the game would've been anyway, so i declare this project already a success. 

[Boogie]

I actually watched the Wing Commander movie in theatres.   ...yeah.

[Kara]

I actually watched the Wing Commander movie in theatres.   ...yeah.

Didn't that Chris Roberts dude also direct that pile of shit?

Yup! (I watch it all the time.)

[bluemax]

I miss goofy side kick Matthew Lillard from movies such as Hackers and Wing Commander and every other mid 90s GenX movie he was in.

[Great Rumbler]

I miss goofy side kick Matthew Lillard from movies such as Hackers and Wing Commander and every other mid 90s GenX movie he was in.

Lillard was amazing in In the Name of the King.

[benjipwns]

Didn't the Wing Commander movie have worse looking Kilrathi than the games?

And the special effects weren't any better.

[benjipwns]

Wing Commander 3 main cast:

Mark Hamill   Mark Hamill   ...   
Col. Christopher Blair

Malcolm McDowell   Malcolm McDowell   ...   
Admiral Geoffrey Tolwyn

John Rhys-Davies   John Rhys-Davies   ...   
Gen. James 'Paladin' Taggart / Prince Thrakhath nar Kiranka (voice)

Jason Bernard   Jason Bernard   ...   
Capt. William Eisen

Thomas F. Wilson   Thomas F. Wilson   ...   
Maj. Todd 'Maniac' Marshall (as Tom Wilson)

Ginger Lynn   Ginger Lynn   ...   
Chief Technician Rachel Coriolis (as Ginger Allen)

Courtney Gains   Courtney Gains   ...   
Lt. Ted 'Radio' Rollins

François Chau   François Chau   ...   
Lt. Winston 'Vagabond' Chang   

Josh Lucas   Josh Lucas   ...   
Maj. Jace 'Flash' Dillon (as Joshua Lucas)

And 4 had the Chairman from Iron Chef America and villian from CRADLE 2 THA GRAVE

[Joe Molotov]

Didn't the Wing Commander movie have worse looking Kilrathi than the games?

And the special effects weren't any better.

It did have the bullet-time warp scene. 

[benjipwns]

My favorite live action cutscenes from that era were the ones inbetween every level in Insomniac's Disruptor:


first set starts at like 1 minute into this

This doomer2012 guy has them all from playing through the whole game, put a couple more in the spoilers:

spoiler (click to show/hide)

[close]

[benjipwns]

Also, Disruptor is better than Resistance. HD remake on PC plz.

[Barry Egan]

Wing Commander 3 main cast

On top of everything that's happening, "CitizenCon" is in one week, and the rumor is that they're going to unveil that Mark Hamill and some other geek friendly actors will be involved with the single player campaign.



Derek Smart has announced that he will release another essay long blog-post with scandalous new information at the same time as the event. 

[Kara]

Didn't the Wing Commander movie have worse looking Kilrathi than the games?

And the special effects weren't any better.

The furballs look a lot less feline. It's like a hybrid of a bipedal cat and something insectoid. Very X-Files.

The effects hold up alright, but the movie is very, very dark. They really go for the Das Boot thing. Hyperspace is lol af though.

[VomKriege]

The panel where the evil producers are using the F2P/P2W mechanics to save themselves is incredibly delicious given what Star Citizen has done.

Seriously. It looks like an unintentional pyramid scheme now where people 'invest' in limited ships and such that they hope to sell on down the line.

I don't think the backers expect to sell their ships down the line (but you wonder about what the in game economy will be like), I've never seen it said. The price tag is only tenuously related to the ship itself, fans are really buying promises towards a bigger game. It's even better (for RSI/CIG) because it's even more intangible. It's not so much a pyramid scheme than an outright cultish behaviour at this point.

[VomKriege]

https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/5681195/#Comment_5681195

Just don’t forget why you clicked ‘Pledge’ way back when – remember the reason?

The Dream of Star Citizen. That’s why.

Despite everything that has gone on, this is the one thing which has not changed and will not change.

Haters will hate.

People who don’t want to see, will not.

Unfortunately, this will also never change.

I re-pledge my complete and utter support for our Chairman, Star Citizen and our backers. No hesitations. No doubts.

That insistence on being called Chairman is really 

[Rufus]

The panel where the evil producers are using the F2P/P2W mechanics to save themselves is incredibly delicious given what Star Citizen has done.

Seriously. It looks like an unintentional pyramid scheme now where people 'invest' in limited ships and such that they hope to sell on down the line.

I don't think the backers expect to sell their ships down the line (but you wonder about what the in game economy will be like), I've never seen it said. The price tag is only tenuously related to the ship itself, fans are really buying promises towards a bigger game. It's even better (for RSI/CIG) because it's even more intangible. It's not so much a pyramid scheme than an outright cultish behaviour at this point.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2014-10-08-inside-star-citizens-grey-market

[Joe Molotov]

Wing Commander III and IV FMV cutscenes were campy but the plot was solid and the acting was at least adequate / okay.

I don't know what the fuck happened with the same guy directing the film, a bigger budget, and literally every aspect was worse.

I'd love to see a Hideo Kojima film, for the lulz.

[Kara]

The trial thing at the end of Wing Commander IV.

[Tasty]

https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/5681195/#Comment_5681195

Just don’t forget why you clicked ‘Pledge’ way back when – remember the reason?

The Dream of Star Citizen. That’s why.

Despite everything that has gone on, this is the one thing which has not changed and will not change.

Haters will hate.

People who don’t want to see, will not.

Unfortunately, this will also never change.

I re-pledge my complete and utter support for our Chairman, Star Citizen and our backers. No hesitations. No doubts.

That insistence on being called Chairman is really 

Though, Yang was less self-deluded.

[benjipwns]

I'd love to see a Hideo Kojima film, for the lulz.

He's made like five of them.

[VomKriege]

The panel where the evil producers are using the F2P/P2W mechanics to save themselves is incredibly delicious given what Star Citizen has done.

Seriously. It looks like an unintentional pyramid scheme now where people 'invest' in limited ships and such that they hope to sell on down the line.

I don't think the backers expect to sell their ships down the line (but you wonder about what the in game economy will be like), I've never seen it said. The price tag is only tenuously related to the ship itself, fans are really buying promises towards a bigger game. It's even better (for RSI/CIG) because it's even more intangible. It's not so much a pyramid scheme than an outright cultish behaviour at this point.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2014-10-08-inside-star-citizens-grey-market

Thanks for the article pretty interesting, though I would argue I read nothing there that strikes me as speculation for speculation's sake as the main driving force among the ship owners (putting aside the scarcity created by CIG/RSI). If I understand correctly, so far you can (or will...) "melt/sell" your ship into any other less expensive model, I think some passionate backers try to satiate a compulsive desire to buy some of the really cool concepts. The lynchpin really is faith more than the promise of being the vanguard that will cash in big latter down the road. Most backers seems to be perfectly aware that they are feeding money to the Dream™ without any ROI, so to speak.

Wing Commander III and IV FMV cutscenes were campy but the plot was solid and the acting was at least adequate / okay.

I don't know what the fuck happened with the same guy directing the film, a bigger budget, and literally every aspect was worse.

Films and games are mostly collegial arts, and you're only as good as your collaborators. Plus making films (and making films for Hollywood) is a very specific thing. Production values, scope and visual intricacies are at a much higher standard than even Wing Commander IV in its time (The lighting is really barebones and shit, for instance) and it's very easy to be overwhelmed by that. Lastly, you probably will not have the same amount of control over the script or the editing.

[VomKriege]

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14979-Chairmans-Response-To-The-Escapist

The drama continues with demands for a formal apology within 24 hours. The letter does seem to aknowledge that the sources could indeed be ex-employees, so there's that.

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/3nfcz6/cig_updates_response_to_escapist/cvnjuuw

A month ago, there was talk on the subreddit of funding the legal campaign with a concept ship called the Defender.

[Barry Egan]

I cannot believe this shit.

[Rufus]

A month ago, there was talk on the subreddit of funding the legal campaign with a concept ship called the Defender.

This ride never ends

[Take My Breh Away]

Chris Roberts still insists on referring to himself as the "Chairman" even when making notice of a lawsuit against a publication.

 

[Kara]

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14979-Chairmans-Response-To-The-Escapist

The drama continues with demands for a formal apology within 24 hours. The letter does seem to aknowledge that the sources could indeed be ex-employees, so there's that.

the phrase "ethics in journalism" appears in this. #GG gone legit y'all.

[Take My Breh Away]

Mods change title to "It's about Ethics in Spaceship games"

[VomKriege]

Maybe someone savvy with the industry may be able to answer me, but does it make any sense for CIG (a company with 260 employees) to have four different offices in Austin, LA, Frankfurt & Manchester ? Are they trying to leech off different public subsidies or something ? Did they buy existing societies ? Surely having all the team under one roof would be less expensive and more efficient ? I have a difficult time imagining how you could justify all the travel expenses that comes with this.

I know Valve has a subsidiary in Luxembourg (For easily guessed reasons)...

[thisismyusername]

Maybe someone savvy with the industry may be able to answer me, but does it make any sense for CIG (a company with 260 employees) to have four different offices in Austin, LA, Frankfurt & Manchester ? Are they trying to leech off different public subsidies or something ? Did they buy existing societies ? Surely having all the team under one roof would be less expensive and more efficient ? I have a difficult time imagining how you could justify all the travel expenses that comes with this.

I know Valve has a subsidiary in Luxembourg (For easily guessed reasons)...

It doesn't. Especially for a start-up with no game under them. If they were blowing up and had a sucessful title or two under them? Yeah, making a office in a different location to help them with design would help. But having to rent in four different locations and sync the github (or whatever) depository of code and other shit is too much hassle for a start-up. It's like a studio that is made after someone from a previous developer spins-off because they don't like the direction the studio is going (forgetting actual examples, let's say similar to Infinity Ward? OHHHHH or that Bungie spin-off that made Stubbs the Zombie?) and then quickly collapse after their first title bombs while their former employer either goes onto bigger and better things (Bungie) or collapses soon after.

[Great Rumbler]

Nothing about the management of CIG makes any sense.

[Kara]

In communiques they mentioned including tax incentives in their raised funds (which is sketchy as hell), so that has to be a part of the cause.

[VomKriege]

I hope Merkel and Cameron have their Star Citizen ID Card.

[VomKriege]

[Freyj]

It doesn't. Especially for a start-up with no game under them. If they were blowing up and had a sucessful title or two under them? Yeah, making a office in a different location to help them with design would help. But having to rent in four different locations and sync the github (or whatever) depository of code and other shit is too much hassle for a start-up. It's like a studio that is made after someone from a previous developer spins-off because they don't like the direction the studio is going (forgetting actual examples, let's say similar to Infinity Ward? OHHHHH or that Bungie spin-off that made Stubbs the Zombie?) and then quickly collapse after their first title bombs while their former employer either goes onto bigger and better things (Bungie) or collapses soon after.

Holy christ man 

[Tasty]

I missed that, haha.

[thisismyusername]

I wish I was kidding. Back in the day there was talk about some multi-location development houses having problems on that sort of level. This was before GitHub. I'm trying to remember the... yeah. I think it was Ubisoft and Ubisoft Shanghai and Montreal. They'd send the day's work from one location to QA (in Shanghai I think) for Splinter Cell but it wasn't "sync"d to where bugs and other shit would pop-up despite Montreal apparently fixing them that day.

[Rufus]

Version control?

[thisismyusername]

Version control?

Yeah, I think that may be it. My memory is fuzzy on the whole problems during "development in multi-location houses" thing. It's been a good ten or so years and all this was though the grapevine sort of story-telling.