Author Topic: US Politics Thread |OT| SAD TRUMP  (Read 5870432 times)

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chronovore

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Everything's Bad, Day ∞
« Reply #9300 on: October 03, 2017, 07:23:47 PM »
https://pitchfork.com/news/guitarist-who-performed-at-festival-in-las-vegas-before-shooting-issues-statement-supporting-gun-control/
Quote from: Caleb Keeter
I’ve been a proponent of the 2nd amendment my entire life. Until the events of last night. I cannot express how wrong I was. We actually have members of our crew with CHL licenses, and legal firearms on the bus.

They were useless.

We couldn’t touch them for fear police might think we were part of the massacre and shoot us. A small group (or one man) laid waste to a city with dedicated, fearless police officers desperately trying to help, because of access to an insane amount of fire power.

Enough is enough.

Writing my parents and the love of my life as a goodbye last night and a living will because I felt like I wasn’t going to live through the night was enough for me to realize that this is completely and totally out of hand. These rounds were powerful enough that my crew guys just standing in a close proximity of a victim shot by this fucking coward received shrapnel wounds

We need gun control RIGHT. NOW.

My biggest regret is that I stubbornly didn’t realize it until my brothers on the road and myself were threatened by it.

We are unbelievably fortunate to not be among the number of victims killed or seriously wounded by this maniac.

Whoa, weird, stunning: Suddenly gun control's a good idea once he's been shot at.

Major shocker.

 ::)

Still, nice to hear a change of heart, even if it required personal endangerment before basic common fucking sense reason set in.

samfish

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Everything's Bad, Day ∞
« Reply #9301 on: October 03, 2017, 07:31:08 PM »
I have found over the years that the more conservative a person is, you can generally assume that they'll never put themselves in another person's shoes until it impacts them personally.

benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Everything's Bad, Day ∞
« Reply #9302 on: October 03, 2017, 08:26:36 PM »
As an extreme proponent of the NAP I refuse to put myself in another person's shoes without their permission first.

I'm a Puppy!

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Everything's Bad, Day ∞
« Reply #9303 on: October 03, 2017, 08:59:22 PM »
I have found over the years that the more conservative a person is, you can generally assume that they'll never put themselves in another person's shoes until it impacts them personally.
usually the difference between a conservative and liberal is just whether or not they can have empathy or not.
que

agrajag

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Everything's Bad, Day ∞
« Reply #9304 on: October 03, 2017, 09:43:52 PM »
Mitch McConnell is such a piece of shit. He said that "now is not the time to discuss legislation" against bump stocks. Now is the PERFECT time, you piece of shit. These guys use this "plz don't politicize the tragedy!!1" as a fucking shield to not pass legislation that would save people's lives. Absolutely disgraceful.

Tasty

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Everything's Bad, Day ∞
« Reply #9305 on: October 03, 2017, 09:47:28 PM »
FUCK YOU, YOU SENSITIVE college intellectual SNOWFLAKES WILL NEVER TAKE MY AR's AND AK PISTOLS AWAY, 'MURRICA  #himu :usacry :gun :american :patel :miyamoto

Fixed

benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Everything's Bad, Day ∞
« Reply #9306 on: October 03, 2017, 09:52:06 PM »
Mitch McConnell is such a piece of shit. He said that "now is not the time to discuss legislation" against bump stocks. Now is the PERFECT time, you piece of shit. These guys use this "plz don't politicize the tragedy!!1" as a fucking shield to not pass legislation that would save people's lives. Absolutely disgraceful.
Some gun control groups don't see it as a worthwhile expenditure of their newly gained political capital either:
Quote
Kristen Rand, legislative director for the Violence Policy Center, says there are a variety of tools on the market for speeding up the number of rounds fired by semiautomatic weapons.

...

The devices have been around for a long time, but have become more popular recently, she said. There's a lot of questions about how effective they really are, she said.

“It’s just a gimmick," she said. "It’s just a gimmick to make your Youtube video and show people how fast you’re shooting your gun.”
Although her last name is highly suspicious...infiltrator?

agrajag

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Everything's Bad, Day ∞
« Reply #9307 on: October 03, 2017, 09:57:06 PM »

The devices have been around for a long time, but have become more popular recently, she said. There's a lot of questions about how effective they really are, she said.

“It’s just a gimmick," she said. "It’s just a gimmick to take dozens of rifles to a hotel room and fire off thousands of rounds into a crowd of people”


Fixed That For Her

benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Everything's Bad, Day ∞
« Reply #9308 on: October 03, 2017, 10:09:49 PM »
But that's falling into the idioms that will help grind legislative efforts to a halt and chip away at any initial polling cleavages when they have to actually start writing it and why she sees no point in that as it maybe saved him milliseconds assuming they weren't modified to be or were auto already.

It lets Tucker do this kind of thing:

Mandark

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Everything's Bad, Day ∞
« Reply #9309 on: October 03, 2017, 10:21:36 PM »
Liberal politicians tends to target symbolic policies which won't significantly affect rates of gun violence: true.

This is a meaningful impediment to effective gun control policy: hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Everything's Bad, Day ∞
« Reply #9310 on: October 03, 2017, 10:29:01 PM »
You misunderstand my post, it's often a meaningful impediment to enacting those symbolic bans.

The unbracing shear of reality is the impediment to utopian gun control regimes in the United States.

spoiler (click to show/hide)
:paul
[close]

Mandark

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Everything's Bad, Day ∞
« Reply #9311 on: October 03, 2017, 10:32:27 PM »
You misunderstand my post, it's often a meaningful impediment to enacting those symbolic bans.

no it's not


Nola

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Everything's Bad, Day ∞
« Reply #9313 on: October 03, 2017, 10:43:57 PM »
Mitch McConnell is such a piece of shit. He said that "now is not the time to discuss legislation" against bump stocks. Now is the PERFECT time, you piece of shit. These guys use this "plz don't politicize the tragedy!!1" as a fucking shield to not pass legislation that would save people's lives. Absolutely disgraceful.
\

On The Media put it really well(as they tend to do), politicians that moralize about how "now is not the time for politics" tend to share the same characteristic of being the politicians that want to leave unexamined the potential consequences of their polices. Instead insisting this period should be left free of that scrutiny, so they can offer anodyne statements that do nothing other than check off that politicians empathy box.

 Brooke Gladstone: :mynicca

benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Everything's Bad, Day ∞
« Reply #9314 on: October 03, 2017, 10:50:19 PM »
Then what's shredding public opinion on popular federal symbolic gun legislation on the regular? Hell, it's even taken apart state gun restrictions writ large.

The NRA and related campaigns are basically always focused on death by a thousand cuts to every specific section in the laws. That's part of the way they make their hoops to jump through since none of the legislation actually ever makes it to the floor.

Mandark

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Everything's Bad, Day ∞
« Reply #9315 on: October 03, 2017, 11:02:20 PM »
public opinion is the driving factor?

benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Everything's Bad, Day ∞
« Reply #9316 on: October 04, 2017, 12:49:50 AM »
And now I will endeavour to explain to you more clearly what I mean: The soul and body being two, have two arts corresponding to them: there is the art of politics attending on the soul; and another art attending on the body, of which I know no single name, but which may be described as having two divisions, one of them gymnastic, and the other medicine. And in politics there is a legislative part, which answers to gymnastic, as justice does to medicine; and the two parts run into one another, justice having to do with the same subject as legislation, and medicine with the same subject as gymnastic, but with a difference. Now, seeing that there are these four arts, two attending on the body and two on the soul for their highest good; flattery knowing, or rather guessing their natures, has distributed herself into four shams or simulations of them; she puts on the likeness of some one or other of them, and pretends to be that which she simulates, and having no regard for men's highest interests, is ever making pleasure the bait of the unwary, and deceiving them into the belief that she is of the highest value to them. Cookery simulates the disguise of medicine, and pretends to know what food is the best for the body; and if the physician and the cook had to enter into a competition in which children were the judges, or men who had no more sense than children, as to which of them best understands the goodness or badness of food, the physician would be starved to death. A flattery I deem this to be and of an ignoble sort, 465 Polus, for to you I am now addressing myself, because it aims at pleasure without any thought of the best. An art I do not call it, but only an experience, because it is unable to explain or to give a reason of the nature of its own applications. And I do not call any irrational thing an art; but if you dispute my words, I am prepared to argue in defence of them.

Cookery, then, I maintain to be a flattery which takes the form of medicine; and tiring, in like manner, is a flattery which takes the form of gymnastic, and is knavish, false, ignoble, illiberal, working deceitfully by the help of lines, and colours, and enamels, and garments, and making men affect a spurious beauty to the neglect of the true beauty which is given by gymnastic.

I would rather not be tedious, and therefore I will only say, after the manner of the geometricians (for I think that by this time you will be able to follow)

as tiring : gymnastic :: cookery : medicine;
or rather,

as tiring : gymnastic :: sophistry : legislation;
and

as cookery : medicine :: rhetoric : justice.

spoiler (click to show/hide)
is that bad enough of an obscure ass-pull of a response to escape the argument going down a path i never intended to argue despite my haphazardness originally :doge
[close]

agrajag

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Everything's Bad, Day ∞
« Reply #9317 on: October 04, 2017, 01:01:43 AM »
And now I will endeavour to explain to you more clearly what I mean: The soul and body being two, have two arts corresponding to them: there is the art of politics attending on the soul; and another art attending on the body, of which I know no single name, but which may be described as having two divisions, one of them gymnastic, and the other medicine. And in politics there is a legislative part, which answers to gymnastic, as justice does to medicine; and the two parts run into one another, justice having to do with the same subject as legislation, and medicine with the same subject as gymnastic, but with a difference. Now, seeing that there are these four arts, two attending on the body and two on the soul for their highest good; flattery knowing, or rather guessing their natures, has distributed herself into four shams or simulations of them; she puts on the likeness of some one or other of them, and pretends to be that which she simulates, and having no regard for men's highest interests, is ever making pleasure the bait of the unwary, and deceiving them into the belief that she is of the highest value to them. Cookery simulates the disguise of medicine, and pretends to know what food is the best for the body; and if the physician and the cook had to enter into a competition in which children were the judges, or men who had no more sense than children, as to which of them best understands the goodness or badness of food, the physician would be starved to death. A flattery I deem this to be and of an ignoble sort, 465 Polus, for to you I am now addressing myself, because it aims at pleasure without any thought of the best. An art I do not call it, but only an experience, because it is unable to explain or to give a reason of the nature of its own applications. And I do not call any irrational thing an art; but if you dispute my words, I am prepared to argue in defence of them.

Cookery, then, I maintain to be a flattery which takes the form of medicine; and tiring, in like manner, is a flattery which takes the form of gymnastic, and is knavish, false, ignoble, illiberal, working deceitfully by the help of lines, and colours, and enamels, and garments, and making men affect a spurious beauty to the neglect of the true beauty which is given by gymnastic.

I would rather not be tedious, and therefore I will only say, after the manner of the geometricians (for I think that by this time you will be able to follow)

as tiring : gymnastic :: cookery : medicine;
or rather,

as tiring : gymnastic :: sophistry : legislation;
and

as cookery : medicine :: rhetoric : justice.

spoiler (click to show/hide)
is that bad enough of an obscure ass-pull of a response to escape the argument going down a path i never intended to argue despite my haphazardness originally :doge
[close]

 :dunno :huh :idont  :crazy :lucas :what

Mandark

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Everything's Bad, Day ∞
« Reply #9318 on: October 04, 2017, 01:08:56 AM »
you really think that these bills die cause of overall public opinion? which is swayed by dem politicians being ignorant of gun tech? that's how this works?

benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Everything's Bad, Day ∞
« Reply #9319 on: October 04, 2017, 01:10:28 AM »
and yes, after he says "I would rather not be tedious" of course Socrates has another couple giant paragraphs along with about 15 circular questions that all lead to the exact same cooking vs. medicine metaphor

agrajag

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Everything's Bad, Day ∞
« Reply #9320 on: October 04, 2017, 01:12:27 AM »
What does the word tiring mean in that context that he used it?

benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Everything's Bad, Day ∞
« Reply #9321 on: October 04, 2017, 01:56:35 AM »
you really think that these bills die cause of overall public opinion? which is swayed by dem politicians being ignorant of gun tech? that's how this works?
like any legislation overall public opinion often collapses when details replace vagaries and opposition groups begin hammering on seemingly insignificant lines that are difficult to defend, when politicians spend their time creating a gun-related bill focused on symbolics and cosmetics or that lists a bunch of model names of guns, opposition groups like the NRA are able to leverage the "death of a thousand cuts" methodology to cut across the cleavage (say hunters who wouldn't mind x, y, or z are shown potential x and near z) and reform it on their side of the argument (roughly 60% of Americans supported an assault weapon ban after the Orlando shooting, by last October a ban on assault weapons hit the lowest support Gallup ever measured at 36% and it was the same with handguns (23%) and the collapse in support among independents mirrored Republicans)

if the public opinion is running against it and has been successfully undermined to where the supporters you need for incrementalism are lost to the entire endeavor, it's definitely not going to have political support unless you can reconfigure it in such a way as to only get institutional political support in the short term

that's why a gun control group like the Violence Policy Center is going to yell about holding up on the politicos rushing to symbolic measures like silencers as the focus while they have the most political capital to use, when your political capital is at maximum due to a shooting and the opposition's solution is "do nothing", that's when you have to push as far for a complete ban as possible and drop small insignificant parts as you go, not start with those...keep it vague like talking about a ban on "murder machine guns", while in the actual bill including bans on silencers, bump stocks, ammunition, anything the color black, etc. ...then you loudly compromise on those allowing them to be kept to hold votes while all you do is make it a felony to intend to sell for criminal use any cylinder that can propel another object with enough force to kill a post-birth human, and then make it a criminal act to carry or transfer more than $500 within 100 miles of a gun you have purchased and/or transferred but not federally registered within areas where U.S. Customs and Border Protection has authority to operate, and you also compromise by announcing there will be no federal registry of guns ever created

then the Border Patrol simply detains any black or Mexican or suspicious looking person until they agree to waive their need for identification and be deported by the Coast Guard to the Nauru Regional Processing Centre after their shift is through working on building the see through wall

problem solved, i think, i forgot what the problem was again, something about pasty chefs practicing medicine without a license was it?
« Last Edit: October 04, 2017, 02:09:26 AM by benjipwns »

agrajag

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Everything's Bad, Day ∞
« Reply #9322 on: October 04, 2017, 10:55:15 AM »
Good point. What are Scalise's thoughts on gun control?

zomgee

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rub

agrajag

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Everything's Bad, Day ∞
« Reply #9324 on: October 04, 2017, 12:16:27 PM »
Good point. What are Scalise's thoughts on gun control?

Glad you asked:

http://thehill.com/homenews/house/353714-scalise-shooting-fortified-view-on-gun-rights

When this dude says that we shouldn't use "tragedies to push political agendas" my natural instinct is to say he can't see the forest for the trees. But when I know that he's received thousands of dollars from NRA and other gun lobbying organizations, I know what the real reason is.

zomgee

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Everything's Bad, Day ∞
« Reply #9325 on: October 04, 2017, 12:29:24 PM »
https://www.c-span.org/video/?435050-1/senators-burr-warner-hold-news-conference-russia-probe&live

"Senate intelligence committee leaders on Wednesday plan to detail the conclusions they've already drawn in their months-long investigation into Russia's meddling into the 2016 US election -- and what they plan to do about it."

Currently live, lotta mumbling.

Edit: This dingus is explaining how Facebook works. This is a nothingburger.

Edit, edit: Actually talking about the Steele dossier, lol! Steele isn't answering invites, and if he doesn't voluntarily come for interviews, he will be compelled.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2017, 12:43:39 PM by zomgee »
rub

Let's Cyber

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Everything's Bad, Day ∞
« Reply #9326 on: October 04, 2017, 12:33:47 PM »
That Tillerson press conference was so bizarre. 

I like how he didn't deny calling Trump a moron too.  :rofl

Joe Molotov

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Everything's Bad, Day ∞
« Reply #9327 on: October 04, 2017, 12:43:26 PM »
Truth is an absolute defense to defamation.
©@©™

Joe Molotov

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©@©™

Mandark

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Everything's Bad, Day ∞
« Reply #9329 on: October 04, 2017, 06:17:48 PM »
overall public opinion isn't what's beating gun control, it's (at least the perception of) a reliable base of motivated single-issue voters

Broseidon

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bent

Nola

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Everything's Bad, Day ∞
« Reply #9331 on: October 04, 2017, 09:24:10 PM »
When it comes to paralysis on gun control, I just see stuff like this:

Quote
WASHINGTON — Top congressional Republicans, who have for decades resisted any legislative limits on guns, signaled on Wednesday that they would be open to banning the firearm accessory that the Las Vegas gunman used to transform his rifles to mimic automatic weapon fire.

For a generation, Republicans in Congress — often joined by conservative Democrats — have bottled up gun legislation, even as the carnage of mass shootings grew ever more gruesome and the weaponry ever more deadly. A decade ago, they blocked efforts to limit the size of magazines after the massacre at Virginia Tech. Five years later, Republican leaders thwarted bipartisan legislation to expand background checks of gun purchasers after the mass shooting at an elementary school in Newtown, Conn.

Last year, in the wake of the Orlando nightclub massacre, they blocked legislation to stop gun sales to buyers on terrorism watch lists.

But in this week’s massacre in Las Vegas, lawmakers in both parties may have found the part of the weapons trade that few could countenance: previously obscure gun conversion kits, called “bump stocks,” that turn semiautomatic weapons into weapons capable of firing in long, deadly bursts.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/04/us/politics/bump-stock-fire-legal-republicans-congress.html

Relatively obvious things, that to be honest probably aren't going to do much in the grand scheme of gun violence, except in very rare circumstances, and I suspect this will ultimately go nowhere.

Like has happened after every mass shooting, the NRA(if they haven't already) and their allies will flood the Republicans with threats and ultimatums. Remind the president how pivotal their support was. Start spamming out emails and put into motion the fear mongering marketing campaigns to gun owners and in favorable districts, and those politicians will begin to get cold feet.

And why wouldn't they? Many would face millions in opposition money funneled to primary challengers in heavily gerrymandered districts from groups like the NRA. They aren't worried about threats from the left.

I hope I'm wrong, because bump stocks, which can't be that big of a market, doesn't seem like a fight worth having for the NRA, but you could of said a lot of that after Sandy Hook.

Nola

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Everything's Bad, Day ∞
« Reply #9332 on: October 04, 2017, 09:29:47 PM »
The collective right is really freaking out about the gerrymandering Supreme Court case. I've seen almost as many op-eds about that the last 3 days as I have about how we shouldn't politicize shootings. It seems that the collective talking point is "This issue that systematically reduces the voting power of certain voters should be left to the voters to resolve!"

I guess this doesn't really matter because it isn't an issue of public opinion - Kennedy will either vote to strike down the maps and adopt the Efficiency Gap standard, or he won't. And it probably doesn't matter what the talking point actually is, since Republicans can and will rally around absolutely any talking point.

Still, seeing this level of collective freak-out about it is interesting. The talking points probably are useful as far as priming the pump for massive right-wing outrage if Kennedy does decide to vote with the liberal 4.

Based on Kennedy's line of questioning to the Wisconsin attorney, it looks very possible that he will in fact vote with the liberals on this. His question, "Would it be unconstitutional for a state government to just say they were officially favoring one political party?" was very interesting. If he somehow sides with the conservatives after asking a question like that, I'll be very surprised.

Of course they are freaking out, the long-term demographics problem has never gone away, Republicans just became really good at being really evil tacticians and technocrats to slow down that process and this could severely erode one major avenue they achieved that.

Kennedy basically asked for this standard in the last case to get his vote, now they have that standard, which is pretty simple, and if i were a Republican I would be freaking out as well.

Oblivion

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Everything's Bad, Day ∞
« Reply #9333 on: October 04, 2017, 09:54:12 PM »
The collective right is really freaking out about the gerrymandering Supreme Court case. I've seen almost as many op-eds about that the last 3 days as I have about how we shouldn't politicize shootings. It seems that the collective talking point is "This issue that systematically reduces the voting power of certain voters should be left to the voters to resolve!"

I guess this doesn't really matter because it isn't an issue of public opinion - Kennedy will either vote to strike down the maps and adopt the Efficiency Gap standard, or he won't. And it probably doesn't matter what the talking point actually is, since Republicans can and will rally around absolutely any talking point.

Still, seeing this level of collective freak-out about it is interesting. The talking points probably are useful as far as priming the pump for massive right-wing outrage if Kennedy does decide to vote with the liberal 4.

Based on Kennedy's line of questioning to the Wisconsin attorney, it looks very possible that he will in fact vote with the liberals on this. His question, "Would it be unconstitutional for a state government to just say they were officially favoring one political party?" was very interesting. If he somehow sides with the conservatives after asking a question like that, I'll be very surprised.

Do you have a link to the oral arguments?

Oblivion

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Everything's Bad, Day ∞
« Reply #9334 on: October 05, 2017, 07:12:44 AM »
Reading this transcript, I could almost see Alito also joining the liberals.

Alito is apparently more of a right-wing hack than Scalia was.

brawndolicious

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Everything's Bad, Day ∞
« Reply #9335 on: October 05, 2017, 10:17:08 AM »
Honestly, if the Supreme Court decides it cannot provide relief for voters who have been explicitly and demonstrably targeted for disenfranchisement by state governments, and that this disenfranchisement can only be solved by a "political solution", I'd question why we even have a Supreme Court. This should be such a staggeringly easy decision.
The keyword is demonstrable. There are very obvious cases of disenfranchisement but in general someone is always getting the short end of the stick because fair is a normative word.

Personally I love what Swarzennegar did down here with independent and nonpartisan commissions and think it should be a federally mandated process.

That's a good simple solution but the efficiency gap argument seems more fair. Human error and bias can still factor in with an independent commission.

Brehvolution

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Everything's Bad, Day ∞
« Reply #9336 on: October 05, 2017, 10:21:25 AM »
The collective right is really freaking out about the gerrymandering Supreme Court case. I've seen almost as many op-eds about that the last 3 days as I have about how we shouldn't politicize shootings. It seems that the collective talking point is "This issue that systematically reduces the voting power of certain voters should be left to the voters to resolve!"

I guess this doesn't really matter because it isn't an issue of public opinion - Kennedy will either vote to strike down the maps and adopt the Efficiency Gap standard, or he won't. And it probably doesn't matter what the talking point actually is, since Republicans can and will rally around absolutely any talking point.

Still, seeing this level of collective freak-out about it is interesting. The talking points probably are useful as far as priming the pump for massive right-wing outrage if Kennedy does decide to vote with the liberal 4.

Based on Kennedy's line of questioning to the Wisconsin attorney, it looks very possible that he will in fact vote with the liberals on this. His question, "Would it be unconstitutional for a state government to just say they were officially favoring one political party?" was very interesting. If he somehow sides with the conservatives after asking a question like that, I'll be very surprised.

Of course they are freaking out, the long-term demographics problem has never gone away, Republicans just became really good at being really evil tacticians and technocrats to slow down that process and this could severely erode one major avenue they achieved that.

Kennedy basically asked for this standard in the last case to get his vote, now they have that standard, which is pretty simple, and if i were a Republican I would be freaking out as well.

If they didn't make this shit so blatantly obvious about their intentions, they would have to be worried. But, as usual, they way over step their bounds. That's why we have a constitution to prevent this. Gerrymandering of this magnitude in some states show utter contempt toward democracy.
©ZH

benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Everything's Bad, Day ∞
« Reply #9337 on: October 05, 2017, 01:03:57 PM »
Alito is apparently more of a right-wing hack than Scalia was.
He is seriously just the fucking worst. And not even for his ultimate vote as much as his fucking opinions.

As bad as Scalia was, he was obviously smart, occasionally followed his own logic to the right conclusions even when you knew he didn't want the result, was funny, and the best part was how him and RBG were besties. And only once or twice a term wrote a garbage dissent where he was just venting. And that became kind of a fun tradition.

The Obergefell dissents said quite a lot to me because they all wrote separate ones. Scalia and Thomas wrote what you expected from their theoretical approach and past cases, though I was mildly disappointed in Thomas not taking advantage of the clear majority like he occasionally does to write a dissent that borderline concurs. While Roberts and Alito wrote basically extended and nonsensical columnist-level diatribes against the majority that barely articulated any kind of legal reasoning.

Alito's done that in a number of cases, even when he's on the winning side. I think the recent one about the semi-phony abortion "health regulations" he wrote something similar which led to Thomas writing a separate dissent at the last minute.

Kinda wish Thomas would drop his respect for dissents where he'll sign most any that has parts he agrees with; since Alito and Roberts rarely return the favor like Scalia always would.

Joe Molotov

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Everything's Bad, Day ∞
« Reply #9338 on: October 05, 2017, 01:11:31 PM »
In Alito's Fisher v UT dissent, he just said "this shit fucking sucks." Not sure what that was all about.
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benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Everything's Bad, Day ∞
« Reply #9339 on: October 05, 2017, 02:29:31 PM »
If he didn't believe the whole majesty of the court bullshit that'd be more believable as a Thomas dissent, he has some one paragraph ones. I don't remember the case but there was one where he just wrote something like "the majority has an incomplete grasp of the facts in this case and has reached an improper conclusion based on [some case citations]. I therefore dissent." I remember a talk he gave where he mentioned one of his clerks brought him a 25 page draft of an opinion from one of his colleagues and he returned it to them with like all but three pages crossed out and the note "expand a little on this for a draft for me."

In fact, I actually looked up the second Fisher and Alito wrote a fucking 51 page dissent. :lol

The majority wrote a 19 page opinion and Thomas concurred with Alito but added this dissent:
Quote
JUSTICE THOMAS, dissenting.

I join JUSTICE ALITO’s dissent. As JUSTICE ALITO explains,
the Court’s decision today is irreconcilable with
strict scrutiny, rests on pernicious assumptions about
race, and departs from many of our precedents.
I write separately to reaffirm that “a State’s use of race
in higher education admissions decisions is categorically
prohibited by the Equal Protection Clause.” Fisher v.
University of Tex. at Austin, 570 U. S. ___, ___ (2013)
(THOMAS, J., concurring) (slip op., at 1). “The Constitution
abhors classifications based on race because every time
the government places citizens on racial registers and
makes race relevant to the provision of burdens or benefits,
it demeans us all.” Id., at ___ (slip op., at 2) (internal
quotation marks omitted). That constitutional imperative
does not change in the face of a “faddish theor[y]” that
racial discrimination may produce “educational benefits.”
Id., at ___, ___ (slip op., at 5, 13). The Court was wrong to
hold otherwise in Grutter v. Bollinger, 539 U. S. 306, 343
(2003). I would overrule Grutter and reverse the Fifth
Circuit’s judgment.
:lol

Even though no court would ever probably meet my impossible standards, this court sans Alito, or rather this court with Scalia has been one of my favorites probably. Roberts as a chief justice is nice after Rehnquist's rule even if his regular justicing is pretty low quality. Got Kennedy as the swing vote which is close to a least bad option I've seen, with Thomas and Sotomeyer inventing the sometimes all minority dissent, and then you had RBG and Scalia who were great for the random spittin hot fire at some obscure case. Alito is so terrible though, and Kagan needs to loosen up a bit as she's actually fairly funny. Gotta learn from Thomas though and show it, can't survive in the power rankings just because all the justices love you and think you're hilarious because you're pass them notes during arguments, even Souter and Stevens, whichever used to be his seat mate said he'd steal half his questions from Thomas' notes.

Trump is going to ruin this court when Kennedy and RBG retire isn't he.

benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Everything's Bad, Day ∞
« Reply #9340 on: October 05, 2017, 02:31:21 PM »
Quote
The National Rifle Association on Thursday  called on the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives to review whether bump fire stocks - like the device used in this week's Las Vegas shooting massacre - comply with current federal law.

"The NRA believes that devices designed to allow semi-automatic rifles to function like fully-automatic rifles should be subject to additional regulations," NRA CEO Wayne LaPierre and Executive Director Chris Cox added in a joint statement.
:usacry sellouts R.I.P. in peace democracy :usacry

Brehvolution

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Everything's Bad, Day ∞
« Reply #9341 on: October 05, 2017, 02:55:37 PM »
I hear it's Obama's bump stock now and he personally overruled the ATF when they were going to ban them in 2010. Notice it was right before he took all the guns?
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Great Rumbler

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Everything's Bad, Day ∞
« Reply #9342 on: October 05, 2017, 03:09:29 PM »
Bring Obama Back Already #boba
dog

TakingBackSunday

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Bring Obama Back Already #boba
« Reply #9343 on: October 05, 2017, 03:16:15 PM »
trump is going to back out on the iran nuclear deal because of course he is
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Great Rumbler

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Bring Obama Back Already #boba
« Reply #9344 on: October 05, 2017, 03:19:07 PM »
trump is going to back out on the iran nuclear deal because of course he is

Thing Obama did = Bad
dog

benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Bring Obama Back Already #boba
« Reply #9345 on: October 05, 2017, 03:37:08 PM »
 :drudge
https://news.vice.com/story/paul-glosar-charlottesville-soros
Quote
Arizona Rep. Paul Gosar suggested the participants in the white nationalist rally in Charlottesville in August may have been organized by an “Obama sympathizer” and funded by George Soros, whom Gosar accused of having “turned in his own people to the Nazis.”
Quote
VICE News: In fairness, antifa is in the news because of a white supremacist rally in Charlottesville.

GOSAR: Well, isn’t that interesting. Maybe that was created by the Left.

VICE News: Why do you say that?

GOSAR: Because let’s look at the person that actually started the rally. It’s come to our attention that this is a person from Occupy Wall Street that was an Obama sympathizer. So, wait a minute, be careful where you start taking these people to.

And look at the background. You know, you know George Soros is one of those people that actually helps back these individuals. Who is he? I think he’s from Hungary. I think he was Jewish. And I think he turned in his own people to the Nazis. Better be careful where we go with those.

VICE News: Do you think George Soros funded the neo-Nazis who marched in Charlottesville?

GOSAR: Wouldn’t it be interesting to find out?

Great Rumbler

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Bring Obama Back Already #boba
« Reply #9346 on: October 05, 2017, 03:39:49 PM »
:drudge GEORGE SOROS :drudge
dog

Joe Molotov

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Bring Obama Back Already #boba
« Reply #9347 on: October 05, 2017, 03:41:21 PM »
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benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Bring Obama Back Already #boba
« Reply #9348 on: October 05, 2017, 03:51:03 PM »
Wouldn’t it be interesting to find out who Pepe Silvia is though?

benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Bring Obama Back Already #boba
« Reply #9349 on: October 05, 2017, 04:10:43 PM »
Another Congressional life terminated before it comes to term:
Quote
Rep. Tim Murphy (R-Pa.), the embattled anti-abortion lawmaker who allegedly encouraged his lover to terminate a pregnancy, resigned from office Thursday  - just 24 hours after announcing his plan to retire after 2018.

"This afternoon I received a letter of resignation from Congressman Tim Murphy, effective October 21 ," Speaker Paul Ryan said in a statement. "It was Dr. Murphy's decision to move on to the next chapter of his life, and I support it."

benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Bring Obama Back Already #boba
« Reply #9350 on: October 05, 2017, 04:39:32 PM »
clock ticking on that lobbyist money, he's potentially gonna have an ex-wife to pay for

Rufus

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Bring Obama Back Already #boba
« Reply #9351 on: October 05, 2017, 05:23:23 PM »
Ask Zeus. Bastards with powers, apparently. I'd spin that wheel too, just to see what happens.

Nola

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Bring Obama Back Already #boba
« Reply #9352 on: October 05, 2017, 05:57:44 PM »
trump is going to back out on the iran nuclear deal because of course he is

I wonder how Obama and Hillary will have dropped the ball according to Fox News when Iran begins accelerating toward a nuclear weapon(or at least accelerating toward very quick breakout capacity)?

Something tells me Russia, China, and most of our international coalition that only tenuously came together the first go round to get this deal done, probably isn't very interested in going through that sanction exercise with old dotty two-scoops when he continues to bleed whats left of the goodwill and trust our hegemony has left.

benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Bring Obama Back Already #boba
« Reply #9353 on: October 05, 2017, 06:24:41 PM »
They wouldn't have followed the agreement anyway, yadda, yadda, yadda.


toku

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Bring Obama Back Already #boba
« Reply #9355 on: October 05, 2017, 11:50:26 PM »
embrace the hellfire

bluemax

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Bring Obama Back Already #boba
« Reply #9356 on: October 06, 2017, 02:16:24 AM »
Edit: Discussed in the GAFapalooza thread
« Last Edit: October 06, 2017, 02:23:48 AM by bluemax »
NO

VomKriege

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Bring Obama Back Already #boba
« Reply #9357 on: October 06, 2017, 04:42:15 AM »
Ozydumbias : "You'll see what I did 25mn ago."
ὕβρις

Brehvolution

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Bring Obama Back Already #boba
« Reply #9358 on: October 06, 2017, 01:48:01 PM »
Oh hey, look. trump just pissed off a shitload of voting women. :clap
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TakingBackSunday

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Bring Obama Back Already #boba
« Reply #9359 on: October 06, 2017, 01:49:39 PM »
Does anyone actually believe he wins reelection at this point?
püp