Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines 2

[toku]

 

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[close]

[Great Rumbler]

 

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plz remake original bloodlines too

[close]

[nachobro]

written by chris avellone and brian mitsoda

[Himu]

[Great Rumbler]

They better bring back Rik Schaffer, too:

[Joe Molotov]

brb, linking my Tinder account

[Momo]

-in 2020

[Don Rumata]

They better bring back Rik Schaffer, too:

He himself said that soundtrack was basically a product of the particular circumstances he was under at the time, and couldn't replicate something similar today.

[thisismyusername]

Wonder if it'll use the old Vamprie:tM canon or new one. (IIRC things got rewritten in the new rulebook...)

[Cerveza mas fina]

Still havent played the first 

[remy]

Wonder if it'll use the old Vamprie:tM canon or new one. (IIRC things got rewritten in the new rulebook...)

feel like it's probably going to be the old one because bloodlines contiuation

new one had some "problematic" stuff or something didn't it 

[MMaRsu]

Insanity but this makes me very happy

[Trent Dole]

Wonder if they'll commission Ministry to write another blatant So What clone

[GreatSageEqualOfHeaven]

I hope their talk of treating mental health issues with respect is PR bollocks to avoid a knee-jerking twitter mob.

Because I don't want a VtM game thats a thought provoking and challenging examination of the real life problems many people go through daily, and how it effects them and those around them.

I want a malkavian who will get in a fight with a stop sign, and shyamalan level twists about it not really being twins, but a woman with a split personality.

[bork]

Still havent played the first 

I think I got this at release and it was a buggy mess.  Years later tried to play it again with fan-patches and mods and shit and it just didn't age well and was still kind of buggy.  Maybe it's better now?

[Great Rumbler]

The original still has a lot of jank that just can't be fixed through fan patches [mostly related to the combat], but the atmosphere, setting, characters, voice acting, and writing are among the best that's even been in a videogame.

[Himu]

Yeah the stories are great. The role playing in the game is top notch. Think Fallout New Vegas esque but in a modern setting and including vampires.

[bork]

Never played New Vegas either.     Same deal, only kinda my fault- wanted to use a bunch of mods and it kept fucking the game up.   

[Himu]

Well, for one, Vamp is a full on role playing game. You pick between different types of vampire at start up and this influences how people treat you. Like New Vegas you influence the world with questing. It’s an actual role playing with actual choices. It’s not Skyrim or modern BioWare esque. This makes the lack of polish worth it. It is a really great game for where it’s good at.

[paprikastaude]

First Person? 

[nachobro]

the way god intended

[Rufus]

They better bring back Rik Schaffer, too:

https://twitter.com/outstarwalker/status/1109127882423492608

[Don Rumata]

They better bring back Rik Schaffer, too:

https://twitter.com/outstarwalker/status/1109127882423492608

Happy to eat crow on it. Nice.

[D3RANG3D]

VTM:B and Redemption are on sale on GOG.

[benjipwns]

[Joe Molotov]

I've never beaten VtM:B without using godmode during the motel battle. That segment was an absolute clusterfuck. I don't know if the fan patches ever fixed it, since it's basically "working as intended" but having maxed out stealth and still being spotted immediately by 500 vamps feels bad man. I've tried to play it legit several times, and the best strats always seemed to be try to kite a few back to the first area, kill them, go get a few more, repeat forever, get bored, turn on cheats. The boss fights are pretty janky too with a stealth build, but I think you can cheese your way through all them.

It's been several years since my last playthrough, I gotta give it another go before VtM:B 2.

[Himu]

yeah i've not played in like half a decade

[GreatSageEqualOfHeaven]

I've never beaten VtM:B without using godmode during the motel battle. That segment was an absolute clusterfuck. I don't know if the fan patches ever fixed it, since it's basically "working as intended" but having maxed out stealth and still being spotted immediately by 500 vamps feels bad man. I've tried to play it legit several times, and the best strats always seemed to be try to kite a few back to the first area, kill them, go get a few more, repeat forever, get bored, turn on cheats. The boss fights are pretty janky too with a stealth build, but I think you can cheese your way through all them.

It's been several years since my last playthrough, I gotta give it another go before VtM:B 2.

I think I usually just start godmoding at around the sewers section 

[Rufus]

I never cheated.



Just did every sidequest to make OP characters.

[Great Rumbler]

Reddit with the helpful breakdown of all known information:

-Brian Mitsoda is lead writer (just like the original) alongside Chris Avellone and Cara Ellison

-Rik Schaffer is composing again

-Set in Seattle

-Seamless hub world

-Multiple hubs

-Direct sequel to 2004's Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines

-Takes place 15 years after Bloodlines

-Game starts off with a Mass Embrace at Pioneer Square where player is among the new vampires born from the event, you're captured and brought upon a court of prominent vampires like the first game to recount the events of the mass embrace before being sentenced to death, court is firebombed and you escape, thrust into Seattle to find out who's responsible

-Player is a thin-blood at first, later on you can choose a clan.

-No quest markers

-First-person with contextual third-person actions just like Deus Ex: Human Revolution and Mankind Divided.

-Fan-favourite characters from Bloodlines returning

-You can use telekinesis, turn into mist to go through vents and glide

-You can scale buildings, there's an emphasis on verticality

-Level design is very reminiscent of the original Deus Ex in the sense that you're offered many different pathways to approach a particular scenario

-The protagonist is not voiced

-Way more dialogue than Bloodlines

-Huge emphasis on character creation. You can choose your background, gender pronoun, employment history, body type and fashion

-Loads of secrets and hidden pathways to find

-Seattle as a hub world is described as "very active", crowds gather outside clubs and muggers prey on victims in side allies, all seamlessly done.

-Main side-questline involves hunting down and finding all the other thin-blood created from the Mass Embrace, each will have their own story about entering into their new life e.g you might find a married thin-blood struggling to deal with their newfound powers

-Blood resonance from the 5th edition will appear in this game. Using your enhanced vampire senses, you can see when NPCs are experiencing an intense emotion like fear, desire, pain, joy and anger. Humans give off a bright aura. Drinking a person with a strong resonance will give you an immediate bonus to things like melee power or seduction. If you drink a particular resonance constantly, you will acquire a taste for it and this will give you permanent buffs called "merits".

-If you continuously suck on people's blood in full view of the public, they'll be more wary of going to those areas and you'll see less citizens wandering the streets

-Emphasis on fluid combat, using vampiric speed to slide in and out of melee range and slash people and execute them with melee weapons. You can get special cinematic finishers in combat when you execute people a la Deus Ex: Human Revolution. Counters are in. Guns exist and are treated as temporary opportunities, you pick em up, use it, then discard it and move on.

-It is not confirmed whether or not you can carry weapons like in the original, pre-order skins for weapons point to being able to do so.

-NPCs can react to you depending on what background you chose for your character in character creation

-Game has modding support, available Day 1

[Himu]

- no quest markers



THEY GET IT

Can’t wait. We should do a Bloodlines replay this year. Also what characters do you guys think are returning?

[toku]

Watch me end up enjoying this more than Cyberpunk 

[Himu]

shit, i will too

[Rufus]

Let's reminisce with a grim boy.

[GreatSageEqualOfHeaven]

Watch me end up enjoying this more than Cyberpunk 

My expectations for this are higher, which means it has so much more to live up to to not be a disappointment

[Joe Molotov]

Also what characters do you guys think are returning?

Velvet Valour. 

[toku]

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/415710551?t=02h35s

https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2019/04/24/vampire-bloodlines-2-explains-thinbloods-and-their-powers/

Paradox and Hardsuit Labs aren’t quite ready to show us any of Vampire: The Masquerade – Bloodlines 2 in motion yet, but they’ve got plenty to say. During a developer stream today, they explained the opening part of the game in more detail  including the kind of choices you get to make during character creation and what being a ‘Thinblood’ vampire entails. Players start at the very bottom of the vampiric food chain, considered monstrous by humans but too human to invite to the cool parties by the vampiric gentry. There’s even a new teaser trailer giving us a peek at how that works below.

While in the original Bloodlines, you were asked to pick which of the vampire clan you wished to be ‘born’ into, Thinbloods aren’t even recorded on the undead family tree. You can (just about) eat human food, sunlight isn’t immediately lethal, and you look a little healthier than the average walking corpse. That’s not to say you’re without cool vampiric perks. You’re faster, stronger (harder and better, too), and have access to a set of very classically vampiric ‘weird’ powers. More powerful than Thinbloods in the current tabletop rules, but the devs say that this is their personal, more exciting house-ruled version.

You’ll have access to three shallow pools of powers, each with two active abilities and three passive upgrades available. Mentalism, as shown above, is telekinesis. At low levels, you can grab small objects and pull guns out of hands. At higher levels you can pick up and throw people out windows. Nebulation is mist-form powers, and can be used to squeeze into tiny gaps, move stealthily or choke (living) people out with vampire fog. Lastly, Chiropteran powers are batty, including classic b-movie vampire gliding leaps, and later the power to summon swarms of winged mice for offence or defence.

During the stream, they also mentioned that you’ll get to pick a character background. This was a feature originally planned for Bloodlines 1, but not implemented until the unofficial patches. Now it’s an important part of the game, and you’ll get different dialogue options depending on who you were in life. A career criminal will have different contacts and options compared to a cop, for instance. They also mentioned offhand that Toreador vampires (the most glamorous and human-passing of the bunch) are confirmed as being active in the game, although they weren’t explicit on whether they’re a playable clan.

On the subject of Clans, you’ll eventually be able to join one, although the developers aren’t ready to say exactly how this will happen, or which ones are available to join. There will be five to pick from at launch, though. Clan vampires are suspicious of these Thinblood types, considering them part glorified cosplayers, part sign of the end times. Not immediately bursting into flames when touched by a sunbeam is practically blasphemy to a creature that’s been living hundreds of years in the shadows. It’s basically Vampire Boomers vs Millennials, and you’ll get to shake up the whole power structure.

Update: To clarify, more clans will be released after launch as free updates.

[toku]

[Great Rumbler]

Looks like it's coming together quite nicely.

[toku]

right amount of fps rpg jank so you know their priorities are right (story and presentation)

 

[Raist]

[toku]

[Himu]

Does this person know how to play first person games unlike the IGN one?

[Raist]

Does this person know how to play first person games unlike the IGN one?

"Hands-off demo" so I assume it's a dev playing.

Combat still looks janky though.

[Rufus]

The first thought I had: Source's facial animations hold up so well, despite the lower fidelity.

[Rufus]

"Hands-off demo" so I assume it's a dev playing.

Combat still looks janky though.

RPS' Brendan Caldwell is playing. The combat looked awful in every publication's video. I agree with Matt (video person) completely.

Part of the problem is the claustrophobic FOV. Every demo has the player lose sight of the enemies, despite the AI being completely braindead so far. Wish they let you switch to third person instead.

Also, Brian Mitsoda is providing many of the minor voices again, it seems.

[toku]

The first thought I had: Source's facial animations hold up so well, despite the lower fidelity.

Valve's tech was great it's a shame they never managed to make it catch on. I know this isn't final but I doubt a whole lot is going to change. They might smooth out combat but I doubt we're gonna get Bloodlines 1 level of facial animations.

Also yea, low FOV and controller.

[toku]

[GreatSageEqualOfHeaven]

The lead narrative designer for Bloodlines 2 is on twitter taking pot-shots at the Cyberpunk Tabeltop saying they don't understand how or why the "Humanity" system exists in it, when it exists and behaves almost identically and for the exact same reasons both narratively and mechanically in V:TM tabletop

 

[Rufus]

link

[Vizzys]

rufus her name is cara ellison / @caraellison

I think people are wary about her because she was the person responsible for hotline miami 2 rape scene overreaction when she wrote for Rockpapershotgun (which led to the game being banned in australia)
Also she wrote for dishonored 2 which I guess some people feel went woke (i never played it so I couldnt tell you)
She also pushed to put pronouns in this game and wants to "subvert male power fantasies" of the first game

[GreatSageEqualOfHeaven]

rufus her name is cara ellison / @caraellison

I think people are wary about her because she was the person responsible for hotline miami 2 rape scene overreaction when she wrote for Rockpapershotgun (which led to the game being banned in australia)
Also she wrote for dishonored 2 which I guess some people feel went woke (i never played it so I couldnt tell you)
She also pushed to put pronouns in this game and wants to "subvert male power fantasies" of the first game

I'm only wary about her because of the things she is saying about this game. I really enjoyed her DOTA stuff on RPS back in the day.

Strike 1 was talking about how problematic the treatment of mental illness in VTM:B 1 was, meanwhile the deluxe preorder bonus is a Stop sign because of how iconic that was.
So while I'd like to think that this is just getting ahead of potential controversy in advance, I have a nagging doubt in my mind that she maybe doesn't get it, and that choosing malkavian won't be playing as an amusing idiot savant, but a lecture on how tough people in the real world with mental illness have things.

Strike 2 is talking about a near identical humanity system from a different game with a real lack of understanding as to why it was there both in that game, and the game this game is based on.
So while I'd like to think that this is just easy potshots at a competitor to get people thinking 'oh, I shouldn't buy that scifi fpsrpg, I should buy that vampire one', I have another nagging doubt in my mind that she maybe doesn't get it, and the understated horror of the source material is that you're now a total fucking monster trying to cling onto things that help you pretend you're not.

I'm not in the 'boycott this now' camp or anything, I'm just getting more wary that they're going to fuck this up.
Like when anyone gets the Call Of Cthulhu licence, and the first thing they start talking about is the combat system. It shows a pretty fundamental 'I don't really know what I'm doing here' treatment.
Maybe their treatment results in something good in the end anyway. But I'm increasingly wary.

[Himu]

She also pushed to put pronouns in this game and wants to "subvert male power fantasies" of the first game

What.

[Rufus]

I know who she is. She never bothered me when she wrote for RPS.

I've found the clarification? Sounds reasonable to me.  (How far do I have to scroll... This is why I ask for links.)

https://twitter.com/caraellison/status/1140127441937031168

Doesn't strike me as anything to be worried about. The humanity system in VtmB isn't exactly deep (and only Gangrel ? benefit from eroding it). Following up on this would be easy, but if they cut that, then so what...

[Himu]

I agree with her especially as a trans person.

[GreatSageEqualOfHeaven]

I know who she is. She never bothered me when she wrote for RPS.

I've found the clarification? Sounds reasonable to me.  (How far do I have to scroll... This is why I ask for links.)

https://twitter.com/caraellison/status/1140127441937031168

Doesn't strike me as anything to be worried about. The humanity system in VtmB isn't exactly deep (and only Gangrel ? benefit from eroding it). Following up on this would be easy, but if they cut that, then so what...

in isolation, its just a "I don't see anything wrong with getting plastic surgery personally " statement, which is completely fair enough.

But it was specifically chiming in when people were trying to build controversy by posting scans of the Cyperpunk 2020 rulebook and saying things like "I don't think that getting a prosthetic leg makes you less of a person, and this is disgustingly ableist", which is completely missing the point of why those rules were there, both thematically and mechanically. And those near same rules for the exact same reasons were present in V:tm (at least when I played it years ago) because the humanity resource was super fucking scarce, and represents all kinds of things like self-control from bloodlust.

Like, its easy enough to post a screenshot of the humanity loss rules from V:TM and then misrepresent it by saying "well I eat meat every day, and that doesn't make me a murderer".
In cyberpunk theres a point where there's nothing left of 'you' and not only does that not bother you anymore, you don't even see other people as real things any more, you're just playing a videogame and everyone else is an NPC. Thats what that resource represents.
Its the same deal in Vampire - when you lose all connections to whatever it was that tied you to a sense of self, everyone else is just prey or competition for food.
Like, that's one of the strongest themes of the material that I'd hope a writer for it gets. Its why all the methulsans (or whatever) are total fucking dicks, and why most of the endings to bloodlines have everything you've done be meaningless, because you're just a patsy in someone elses fuckery that you never see coming.

[Rufus]

Strike 1 was talking about how problematic the treatment of mental illness in VTM:B 1 was, meanwhile the deluxe preorder bonus is a Stop sign because of how iconic that was.

Eh, marketing shmarketing. They will push any button they can.

So while I'd like to think that this is just getting ahead of potential controversy in advance, I have a nagging doubt in my mind that she maybe doesn't get it, and that choosing malkavian won't be playing as an amusing idiot savant, but a lecture on how tough people in the real world with mental illness have things.

People like the gibbering madman type, I get it, but the first game also featured two other very interesting takes on them (Grout being my favourite). So long as they still have eerie precognition of things, I'll be happy.
The clan presentation they made for the Malk suggests paranoid delusion, which will lend itself well to that. The one thing I'd love to see is someone with hallucinations, but that would be too expensive.

Strike 2 is talking about a near identical humanity system from a different game with a real lack of understanding as to why it was there both in that game, and the game this game is based on.
So while I'd like to think that this is just easy potshots at a competitor to get people thinking 'oh, I shouldn't buy that scifi fpsrpg, I should buy that vampire one', I have another nagging doubt in my mind that she maybe doesn't get it, and the understated horror of the source material is that you're now a total fucking monster trying to cling onto things that help you pretend you're not.

I have yet to find Ellison referencing Cyberpunk 2077 directly, but from what I've seen she appears to object to the humanity loss specifically in the cyberpunk setting (why would a bodymod you chose erode it, unless you believe in some woo notion of what a human is. Makes sense in Shadowrun though.)

Either way, I don't see why the bolded couldn't be a theme this time, based on what she's said. Besides, it wasn't explored at all in the previous game.

[GreatSageEqualOfHeaven]

Either way, I don't see why the bolded couldn't be a theme this time, based on what she's said. Besides, it wasn't explored at all in the previous game.

I mean... you're personally responsible for the deaths of most everyone you meet most everywhere you go in the first game, including getting basically the entire skyline apartments wiped out.
I'd personally say that that element is there - even though its not relegated to a player controlled resource bar - in the writing, but YMMV.

[Rufus]

I don't mean to be glib, but that's video games, no? Choice-heavy RPGs, anyway. The cruelty which incurs humanity losses in the game is not much different to what a psychopath in Fallout might do, the skin is just different. (And you're not directly responsible for any deaths in Skyline Apartments, actually. Not unless you send the producer to Pisha or kill him yourself.)
The only real confrontation with the change you've gone through is your Ghoul and a random woman in LA, who recognizes you from your former life. She acts completely normal, but you're forced to keep the Masquerade up somehow. Both are side content and missable, I believe. The ghoul definitely, the woman I'm not sure.

The rest is stealth or agressive, paragon or renegade type stuff.

[Great Rumbler]

I don't really have anything to add other than Dishonored 2 was very good and I don't remember there being anything overly woke in it.