Author Topic: The Last of US II Spoilers are out! (spoiler: game out June 19)  (Read 39317 times)

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demi

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Re: The Last of US II Spoilers are out! (spoiler: game out June 19)
« Reply #360 on: July 03, 2020, 06:53:14 PM »
The final sequence is just as terrible as I read. Glad it's over, fuck this game
fat

Rahxephon91

  • Senior Member
Re: The Last of US II Spoilers are out! (spoiler: game out June 19)
« Reply #361 on: July 03, 2020, 08:17:19 PM »
Damn, a lot of y'all didn't like this one.
Ive liked it so far. It’s just really messy.

El Babua

  • Senior Member
Re: The Last of US II Spoilers are out! (spoiler: game out June 19)
« Reply #362 on: July 04, 2020, 08:53:26 AM »
Finished it. Around 30 hours clocked. Really good game. Story works on a scene by scene basis but gets messy af if you try to piece it all together again. Thought it was way too long for its own good. The gameplay loop of combat, explore, scavenge got old after like hour 18. :doge

spoiler (click to show/hide)
Most of the second half encounters were way better than the ones in the first half (considering a lot of those were tutorials, it makes sense), but the game could have gotten some serious time in the cutting room floor. And ND should have given Ellie a few of Abby's encounters to compensate. Day 2 Seattle with Abby was the best stretch of gameplay, even if it ended up being a massive waste of time lol

I also liked the last stretch of gameplay with Ellie against the infected and regular enemies, because they were in intricately crafted environments that gave you a shit ton of ammo and supplies, allowing you to hunt down enemies with Ellie in a way you weren't given a chance with her in Seattle.

I see what ND was going for with the ending, but come on. Ellie letting Abby go would have felt more powerful if I didn't slaughter an entire fucking compound before I got to her. And that's the main issue I have with the story as far as main points go. I know they tried to humanize the enemies more in this one, but they felt like dolls reciting human emotion than actual characters. I actually liked the idea of giving Ellie PTSD, only if it explicitly made the player know that the only time she's fine now is if she's in danger. A reflection on the real life PTSD people in the military can go through, where they are "fine" while deployed, but turn into wrecks back home. Something tangible, rather than what feels like a narrative device to get us to feel something for Ellie when we get to control her again. But the game couldn't even do that. In fact, it's way too merciful towards both Ellie and Abby, in terms of the trauma they go through, compared to what they dish out. But then again, they'd probably get killed pretty quickly in a world like that if they played it straight.
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The structure also didn't work IMO and I feel that it reduced the impact of many scenes as a result. Didn't mind the flashbacks with Ellie, some of them were legitimately great. The ones with Abby were straight up momentum killers.

After the controversy/politicizing of this game dies down I think it’ll be seen as the second coming of Bioshock Infinite. It even goes for the same both sides shit.

The gameplay is actually good in this one so at least I personally won't be genuinely mad about it as I was with Infinite.

spoiler (click to show/hide)
As far as the "both sides" shit, it actually makes more sense seeing two tribes going to war, one of which effectively commiting genocide on the other. Also, Slavery being used by the Raiders or Riders, or whoever the last gang you fought were called. This works because civilization already ended, and humanity went back to running their greatest hits - stuck in some weird interregnum between the modern world and the bronze age. Compared to Infinite, where you had to go to a different reality entirely in order for the story to justify that the people you were made to sympathize with are bad too. The only complaint I have in the WLF vs Seraphite conflict, is that the Scars are just some weird ass cult - nothing really interesting behind them.
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El Babua

  • Senior Member
Re: The Last of US II Spoilers are out! (spoiler: game out June 19)
« Reply #363 on: July 04, 2020, 03:43:40 PM »
Wait, the Seraphites were supposed to represent Palestinians? Well played Mr. Druckmann lmao

https://twitter.com/KarmicSlingshot/status/1279318021870366722

Bebpo

  • Senior Member
Re: The Last of US II Spoilers are out! (spoiler: game out June 19)
« Reply #364 on: July 04, 2020, 03:53:05 PM »
I thought from the leaks of what seemed like earlier builds the Seraphite cult was supposed to be a take on the bible thumper Christian USA, but they cut going into it either for optics or pacing.

Rahxephon91

  • Senior Member
Re: The Last of US II Spoilers are out! (spoiler: game out June 19)
« Reply #365 on: July 04, 2020, 04:13:36 PM »
I thought from the leaks of what seemed like earlier builds the Seraphite cult was supposed to be a take on the bible thumper Christian USA, but they cut going into it either for optics or pacing.
:D

Pissy F Benny

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Re: The Last of US II Spoilers are out! (spoiler: game out June 19)
« Reply #366 on: July 04, 2020, 04:57:56 PM »
The game is zio propaganda then :maduro

:piss :goty2 :piss2
(ice)

Bebpo

  • Senior Member
Re: The Last of US II Spoilers are out! (spoiler: game out June 19)
« Reply #367 on: July 04, 2020, 05:13:49 PM »
I thought from the leaks of what seemed like earlier builds the Seraphite cult was supposed to be a take on the bible thumper Christian USA, but they cut going into it either for optics or pacing.
:D

There used to be 5 days, lining up with the leaks, at least one day was Dina getting captured by the Seraphites and Ellie going to their island to rescue her and you'd learn more about their background during that section.

also spoilers for beyond halfway:

spoiler (click to show/hide)
It sounds like in that version, whats his name father guy would've died during the rescue saving Dina, but when they cut out that section they moved his death to the climax theater encounter.
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demi

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Re: The Last of US II Spoilers are out! (spoiler: game out June 19)
« Reply #368 on: July 04, 2020, 09:55:56 PM »
Speedrunners have got TLOU2 down to about 13 minutes. What the fuck

https://clips.twitch.tv/AbrasiveAntediluvianPoxHoneyBadger
fat

benjipwns

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Re: The Last of US II Spoilers are out! (spoiler: game out June 19)
« Reply #369 on: July 04, 2020, 10:17:37 PM »
quality not quantity

Rahxephon91

  • Senior Member
Re: The Last of US II Spoilers are out! (spoiler: game out June 19)
« Reply #370 on: July 05, 2020, 01:34:12 AM »
Man a flash forward epilogue was really not needed.

But I guess Rockstar did it so Naughty Dog felt the need to do it too.

Except it did'nt feature the boring characters of Ellie and Dina.

As I finish the game I really think the story is a mess. The game is really long and honestly Naughty Dog just did way too much.

It's such a disjointed narrative that clashes with being a game. I don't even know what you could have done instead.

I like Abby. Her story is the more interesting one, but even then it feels a bit truncated. Like it's pretty much the same shit as Last of US 1. She finds redemption through growing close with someone else. Also the running theme of her revenge being unfuilling, kind of pointless, and ruining/killing her friends. It's kind of ok and it is a good contrast to Ellie....

Except I played a 15 hour game that was pretty boring before I get to it and the story needs that boring part to. Like Ellie's part is so whatever. Nothing really happens of note during her story and her relationship with Dina is so bad. Hell, it starts getting good when she ditches Dina and you have actual conflict with Jesse, as he points out the selfishness of whats going on. Then I'm thrown into Last of Us Part 2 Movie 2 which does honestly do an ok job (if a bit hammy) recontexulizing whats going on.

The thing is I'm not sure as a game this fits. I like gameplay. It's fun and it's tense. Guns feel weighty. It does a good job making it seem like you are always on edge of not having enough stuff. Level design is good and expansive. Naughty Dog has always been good at it's style of simple stealth in that yeah it's not Splinter Cell and it's not supposed to be. It's super basic "if you are hiding behind something your good" and from there it can become a pretty tense game of shoot and try to scramble for hiding relief, at least when fighting humans anyway. And I think that has worked for their Uncharted 2 and so on games. The action scenes feel like action movies. But unlike Uncharted, Last of Us is slower and a bit more gurling and is not big on the set pieces or cinematic platformring. So while Uncharted 4 was also too long, it also has plenty of cool things to take you out of the gameplay loop. This game dosen't and while that loop is sound, I'm not sure it's sound for as long as this game is.

And I feel you have that matched up with a story that tries too much and I don't know, it sure isn't as sound as the first one.

It's like Naughty Dog wanted to address what people criticizes them for.

"Oh our stories are formulaic"

"Well here's this game that plays on perspectives!"

"Ludo disonance whatever"

"Well here's the game that tries to make you feel bad for killing!"

I'm not sure it 100% works.

Bebpo

  • Senior Member
Re: The Last of US II Spoilers are out! (spoiler: game out June 19)
« Reply #371 on: July 05, 2020, 02:41:10 AM »
Epilogue was needed because the ending before it was an unsatisfying conclusion. Yeah, like RDR2.

RDR2 pulled off the better epilogue though.

Rahxephon91

  • Senior Member
Re: The Last of US II Spoilers are out! (spoiler: game out June 19)
« Reply #372 on: July 05, 2020, 02:45:39 AM »
Well I just got to it and maybe I'm more annoyed simply because I want the game to end.

In RDR2 though I felt it was needed as it gave closure to Arthur's sacrifice.

Here, I guess I'll just see what it does for the story.

Rahxephon91

  • Senior Member
Re: The Last of US II Spoilers are out! (spoiler: game out June 19)
« Reply #373 on: July 05, 2020, 04:52:23 AM »
spoiler (click to show/hide)
Ok I wasn't really impressed with the epilogue. Seemed to be kind of lame and not really satisfying.

I mean as just a game it did'nt really have a punch. The last game ends on a pretty eerie hospital kill spree as joel and then the awkward conversation between the two that really highlights the bitter of this bittersweet ending. This is just "eh here's more of the same in a brighter place". Fight this new generic ass "savage" gang that feels ripped out of  a VHS C grade mad max rip-off. "Oh did you think we could get less lazy then the lame "back to nature" cult in the game? Then it just has a lame MGS4 was a thing ending as it's big end game set piece. It really felt like they ran out of ideas.

Then as a story...like yay Abby and Lev escaped only to get fucked up? Tommy is an asshole who can't understand why someone would want to continue a revenge quest that ended badly for everyone, including him? The casually also depowered Ellie can challenge de-muscled Abby to a fight?

Like at first I thought it could be cool to have Ellie be a "hero" in this little coda. Still return to Dina having left and her fingers messed up to give a cost for revenge. Like she's there to get Abby, but in the meantime take out this new (tacky) enemy and then chose to just rescue them. And I guess it kind of happens, but they just had to have a big olde dumb fight which just felt like no confidence in having a not "epic" scene. I don't know, just wasn't a really interesting last part.

Also in the post Apocalypse can your girlfriend really afford to do the "do this and I'm leaving and taking everything?"
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Don Rumata

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Re: The Last of US II Spoilers are out! (spoiler: game out June 19)
« Reply #374 on: July 05, 2020, 06:46:50 AM »
The epilogue shares the problem the rest of the game has: too much gameplay (as absurd as it sounds).
Story wise it's necessary, and if you think the story could've been concluded before it, you missed the whole point.

spoiler (click to show/hide)
I also have no issue with Dina's decision. Is she supposed to remain alone in a farm in the middle of nowhere, waiting for Ellie? She's probably back in Jackson with Jesse's parents (as the letters in their house mentions) helping her raise JJ.
And i think Tommy's epilogue was actually a crucial character moment for him, who so far has been a bit of a mary sue of a character, showing that in him there was an underlying moral cowardice of acting reticent while pushing others to do what he wanted, but wasn't willing to admit outright (this ties into his implied past with Joel, in LoU1, where he blames his brother for some of the horrors they committed).
Ellie and Abby aren't the only ones unable to live without catharsis, it makes no sense to look at a story like this from a detached, pragmatic point of view of cost v reward, because the imbalance of that trade is the whole point of every other revenge story, including this one.
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As basic as a story like this is, i see a lot of people still missing really obvious thematic points.

Anyway, introducing the
spoiler (click to show/hide)
Rattlers would've been fine, if they didn't have you go through a whole massive structure with them, the pace of the plot just doesn't call for it, i get doing some world building and implying that California (and the rest of the World) has its own stories and problems, but at that point in the plot, you can't string along players for another 40 minutes of sneaking around a camp, of people that have little to nothing to do with the plot.
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At least they're a bit more reasonably characterized than the Seraphites are (for me, still the lowest point in the game by far, as fun as they can be to fight).

Rahxephon91

  • Senior Member
Re: The Last of US II Spoilers are out! (spoiler: game out June 19)
« Reply #375 on: July 05, 2020, 03:04:06 PM »
spoiler (click to show/hide)
Oh no, I think Dina should have left. I feel like that is the cost of Ellie's un-willingness to let go. And while I understand the need of some catharsis, I'm not sure a fist fight is the solution. For gameplay or narrative. The story to me was clearly about the unsatisfying and pointlessness of revenge. Which is why I liked Abby's part more as her arc was interesting. She got her revenge and it did nothing. It wasn't emotionally satisfying, lead to some strange feelings, the only thing anyone can say about it is "yeah I guess Joel deserved it", it leads to a lot more destruction on her end, and honestly pushes her loved ones away from her.  And the same thing happens to Ellie and I guess only at the end does she realize that this is something Joel would'nt have wanted and it sure will do nothing really for her.

But I still find Dina taking everything pretty funny. I would assume "moving" is'nt such an easy thing in zombie Apocalypse world. Thats it.

But I am also more impacted by her losing her figures and not being able to play guitar and thus a connection to Joel then I am Dina leaving as I don't buy that relationship.

But I won't agree on Tommy. While I agree his character has probably always been written as not exactly wanting to owe up to his role in things. I don't know, in the first game he is clearly the brother that has given up that life and found something far more peaceful. To the point that while maybe naive is very welcoming to the strangers of Abby's group in the begining of the game. I did'nt buy him going off to kill a bunch of people and I don't buy him chastising Ellie for being a coward when not only did they get most of the group, but it has lead to disaster for both of them".
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thetylerrob

  • Member
Re: The Last of US II Spoilers are out! (spoiler: game out June 19)
« Reply #376 on: July 05, 2020, 08:00:45 PM »
spoiler (click to show/hide)
Tommy isn't a mary sue at all lol, that term has lost all meaning.

It's kinda interesting that his arc is exactly the same as Ellie's though. Even down to the disfigurement. I think his scene in the epilogue is more about establishing the weight of her choice, Ellie has literally stared the outcome of revenge in the face but she still needs it, she's completely broken and can't let go of the past.

Did anybody look to see if Dinah left the sheep? She probably hired somebody to take her to Jackson or Jessie's parents helped her move.
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Don Rumata

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Re: The Last of US II Spoilers are out! (spoiler: game out June 19)
« Reply #377 on: July 06, 2020, 03:42:49 AM »
Yeah true, Mary Sue isn't the right term, but what i meant is it gives his actions a new layer of depth.
spoiler (click to show/hide)
Up to that point there was a reticence shown that almost painted him as an unwilling participant, as i said his begrudging with Joel in LoU1,  and his initial rationalization trying to prevent Ellie from going.
Although he is the one sneaking away to go after Abby, he also asks Maria to lock Ellie in and prevent her from going after them.
So it's interesting to see his shift into someone completely consumed by that obsession for revenge, to the point where he berates Ellie for not fulfilling her promise (although this promise is made off screen? I don't remember it ever being shown).
I think it undermines some of the nobility of the character, which makes him more interesting.
to me, it was a sinister tough that was needed for the character.
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Mr Gilhaney

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Re: The Last of US II Spoilers are out! (spoiler: game out June 19)
« Reply #379 on: July 13, 2020, 12:41:33 PM »
finally finished it now.

spoiler (click to show/hide)
would have been a lot better if they just cut the game first time you get to that farm i think. didnt care much for the story in the end, or the 180's a lot of the characters constantly do. first one was a much tighter paced game. but second had the better set pieces for sure. also the game fucking crashed during the very last fight against abby for me... feel like first time i've seen that on ps4. also fell down the ground twice when taking swings at enemies... somehow feels like it could have used a bit longer for bug fixing, which is weird considering they claimed it was done for so long.
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Mr Gilhaney

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Re: The Last of US II Spoilers are out! (spoiler: game out June 19)
« Reply #380 on: May 19, 2021, 11:28:27 AM »


1440p is a bit shit. But 60fps cool.

Let's Cyber

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Re: The Last of US II Spoilers are out! (spoiler: game out June 19)
« Reply #381 on: May 19, 2021, 12:49:33 PM »
Waiting a year to play this at a deep discount and now at 60 fps.

 :checkit

Rahxephon91

  • Senior Member
Re: The Last of US II Spoilers are out! (spoiler: game out June 19)
« Reply #382 on: May 19, 2021, 03:36:07 PM »
May replay this. 60fps should be cool.

Tuckers Law

  • Senior Member
Re: The Last of US II Spoilers are out! (spoiler: game out June 19)
« Reply #383 on: May 19, 2021, 07:09:19 PM »
Waiting a year to play this at a deep discount and now at 60 fps.

 :checkit

No matter what level of expectations you have going into this, my recommendation: lower them, like…really lower them.  I don’t know that it’ll help with this game, but if you’re determined to play it then it may improve your experience.

Let's Cyber

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Re: The Last of US II Spoilers are out! (spoiler: game out June 19)
« Reply #384 on: May 19, 2021, 08:05:06 PM »
oh don't worry, I'm fully spoiled on messy, disjointed story. I hear the combat is improved and Seattle is neat to explore, so I'm down.

It's also going on sale next week.  :P

Tuckers Law

  • Senior Member
Re: The Last of US II Spoilers are out! (spoiler: game out June 19)
« Reply #385 on: May 19, 2021, 08:42:54 PM »
There is one section in the game that I thought was genuinely fantastic and enjoyable to play, to be fair.  It’s just everything else surrounding it that really dragged the experience for me.

Rahxephon91

  • Senior Member
Re: The Last of US II Spoilers are out! (spoiler: game out June 19)
« Reply #386 on: May 20, 2021, 12:17:06 AM »
What is really so bad about this game compared to the first? I don't even hold the first game in high regard, but I really have missed what people find so damning about this game.

Don Rumata

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Re: The Last of US II Spoilers are out! (spoiler: game out June 19)
« Reply #387 on: May 20, 2021, 02:16:45 AM »


1440p is a bit shit. But 60fps cool.
Odd how ND is still doing the absolute minimum when it comes to these patches.
Uncharted 4 also just had an upres to 1440p on Pro, which is fine, but from Sony's premiere studio you'd expect some kind of amazing technical push, to show off the new hardware's capabilities, even when it comes to a patch like this.
Meanwhile Insomniac implemented ML muscle deformation in Spiderman.
Still, 60fps is always nice to have.

HardcoreRetro

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Re: The Last of US II Spoilers are out! (spoiler: game out June 19)
« Reply #388 on: May 20, 2021, 05:54:17 AM »
What is really so bad about this game compared to the first? I don't even hold the first game in high regard, but I really have missed what people find so damning about this game.

The way it was written. Everything else is of the same quality or even better than the first game. Which then turns into a problem when your game is heavily skewed towards your story/writing and focuses less on the parts of the game that are actually good.

Svejk

  • Senior Member
Re: The Last of US II Spoilers are out! (spoiler: game out June 19)
« Reply #389 on: May 20, 2021, 07:38:24 AM »
ND has some highly talented artists, but Druckman is extremely overrated, imo.  Granted, I have yet to play Part 2, but I've held off because of such a vast amount of folks all claiming the same thing; the story is poorly written.  From reading some spoilers and how it supposedly ends, it sounds to me it literally goes nowhere in the overarching story and things just happen...  ...kind of like the past 7 seasons of TWD.

If this drops to $20 or becomes a PS+ freebie, I may try it then....  Then again, I hear it's awfully bloated and is too long for it's own good.  That's the last thing I need with my backlog. lol
spoiler (click to show/hide)
Honestly, having tried Days Gone not too long ago, it interested me WAY more. lol
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demi

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Re: The Last of US II Spoilers are out! (spoiler: game out June 19)
« Reply #390 on: May 20, 2021, 12:07:55 PM »
60fps buttsex
fat

Joe Molotov

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Re: The Last of US II Spoilers are out! (spoiler: game out June 19)
« Reply #391 on: May 20, 2021, 03:49:22 PM »
60fps buttsex

Naughty Gods have done it again! :lawd
©@©™

Tuckers Law

  • Senior Member
Re: The Last of US II Spoilers are out! (spoiler: game out June 19)
« Reply #392 on: May 20, 2021, 05:57:07 PM »
Speaking of, I’d give the game a lot more credit had druckmann and crew gone for a full-on gay male coupling and included sweaty, lusty man sex.  The Lesbian couplings of the lead character are much more normalized and nobody really gives much of a shit except for Karen’s wanting to make everything all about them, on any end of the sexuality spectrum.  Hell, go further and try a non-parody bear and cool young dude style coupling, really aim for the stars.

Instead, the game we have feels mostly pandering.  It was asked above what is really so bad about the game and that’s a part of it, pretending you’re some transcendental barrier-breaking juggernaut, when the reality is you told some superficially-progressive revenge yarn where the direction, pacing and scripting are all shit built on a foundation of pretty poor writing.  Anything related to pacing and writing in games aren’t normally the biggest problems for me when paired with gameplay I generally enjoy (else I’d have a much harder time with most RPG’s), but if your game experience leans this heavily on the scripted narrative you want to tell, it damn well needs the writing and direction to back it up.

Last of Us 2 was Druckmann playing at being an auteur with unlimited budget and scope to make his masterpiece, only to instead give us an overly long junior high-school production play with really decent set design and messaging more surface-level than teenage angst in a Linkin Park song.

Rahxephon91

  • Senior Member
Re: The Last of US II Spoilers are out! (spoiler: game out June 19)
« Reply #393 on: May 20, 2021, 06:28:50 PM »
I guess I like being pandered too because I didn’t get that all. Nothing seemed overly progressive then simply featuring a  trans character. To the point that whatever Lev’s deal was, I don’t even remember. What felt forced to me was Dina and Ellie, but that’s because their romance was poorly written in general.

But other then that I don’t really pick up on those things. I guess because I already agree with them?

Guess I’ll have to replay the game.

Tuckers Law

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Re: The Last of US II Spoilers are out! (spoiler: game out June 19)
« Reply #394 on: May 20, 2021, 06:40:12 PM »
I’m not talking about overly progressive though, but instead I don’t think the game is all that progressive despite the impression the devs give of it being brilliantly woke and inclusive of representation.  I feel like they were “Corporately-Approved” soft with the Lev stuff, when I feel they should’ve gone further and more openly explored that part of the story, especially with the significance being placed on it with the discourse surrounding the game.

I don’t know, maybe the well was poisoned from the very beginning because of the shitty conversations around that aspect and the team never intended it to be some Big Thing.  I’ll concede that my perception could be entirely skewed on that.

Edit: also, by that point of the game where you meet Lev I was essentially hate-playing it, so I may have missed things.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2021, 06:47:54 PM by Tuckers Law »

Rahxephon91

  • Senior Member
Re: The Last of US II Spoilers are out! (spoiler: game out June 19)
« Reply #395 on: May 20, 2021, 11:18:00 PM »
I don't know man. I really try to avoid discussions of what's woke and/or problematic. Do I believe that Druckman and Co decided to lay on "diversity" characters thick? In an effort to appear progressive? Sure, but I believe it's because yeah they probably are left thinking people and maybe their work is trying to punch well above their weight. Yet, I also really did not follow pre-release media, so I don't know what Naughty Dog was pushing.

I simply took this as a story of the cycle of revenge and nothing more. I didn't take most of the game if at all as having statements beyond the surface level. Lev being Trans to me was just an aspect of the plot and story, tied to him being part of a very regressive and troubled cult. Something that is the opposite end of the spectrum compared to their enemy. Maybe making him trans was a rather shallow choice as he simply could have just been a girl who did not want to comply with his cult's ways.

But I didn't read anything into the design of Abby beyond she's someone that has let revenge transform her body into a machine for revenge. Plenty of people look toward bodybuilding after suffering trauma. her not being "pretty" well, the first game and this do go for more "realistic" people. I don't really care about the discussion that a woman couldn't be that biff without modern nutrition and whatnot, that's missing the point.

What I liked about the story was honestly Abby's story. I don't care that she killed Joel. Joel was going to die, I always assumed a sequel would deal with the consequences of his actions. Maybe it did'nt has to be so in your face, but again both these games try to be grim and dark when it comes to this. It also being drawn out is kind of the point. It's pointless and only self-serving and in the end, Abby's compatriots don't care for it either. But from there to me Abby's story becomes more interesting. You see how pointless revenge was. How it didn't help her and really kind of pushed others away and also circles back to them. I liked Owen and I liked most of Abby's supporting cast. How honestly they had more going on and Ellie's revenge becomes a kind of a nuisance.

As a story about the cycle of revenge, I think it works. The pacing is a little off as it feels Ellie's part is kind of boring. Only becoming exciting as it heats up and then switches to Abby. But I think it got its point across. Did it handle woke aspirations well? Maybe not, but I wasn't there for that.