The coming console war

[bork]

I'm going with Xbox for next gen. I regret buying every single PS4 game I bought due to the CMOS scandal.

Would recommend a new PC instead- it will get all the same games, plus the stuff Xbox won't get.

[Rahxephon91]

Sony updated the PS3 this year to play modern blu ray releases.

This whole CMOS scandal is overblown. It's not even a scandal. On no, maybe in 20 years the PS4 won't work!

What's the scandal? That like a lot of electronics the PS4 has a cmos battery, a battery that will eventually die. What a conspiracy!

By all means, go Xbox if you want, but you're being a little dramatic. You have no idea what an end of life patch will be like for the PS4.

I mean the PSP had patch support from 2006 to 2015.

PS3 patch 4.87 came out in December 2020.

Also, those supposed PS3 patches that weren't happening that gamers lost their shit over, was fixed days later.

Worrying about the Cmos battery is literally worrying about something that could happen decades from now.

[MMaRsu]

You really are a sony fanboy arent u

[Rahxephon91]

Sure.

But regardless of that, I think this is pretty dumb.

Are you really going to care that the PS4 is a brick 20 years from now when we are on PS7, Xbox Series Ruby and Saphire, and the Nintendo MindFuckU? I don't think so.

But it's also "outrage" driven by nothing proven. Even the articles about this just assume "oh this is doomsday.......years from now". And then assume nothing will be done, when there's evidence such as a PS3 patch 4 months ago that easily says otherwise.

An eventual issue

None of this is a huge problem for most PlayStation owners right now. Yes, the 10- to 20-year lifespan on your average CMOS battery is slowly running out, especially for the earliest PS3 hardware. But replacing the battery and resyncing the internal timer with PSN is a relatively minor annoyance for the time being (assuming you can find a Wi-Fi hotspot and PSN isn't suffering one of its rare outages).
But nothing lasts forever, as Sony's recent decisions regarding older PlayStation online stores show. At some point in the future, whether it's in one year or 100 years, Sony will shut off the PSN servers that power the timing check for hardware it no longer considers important. After that, it's only a matter of time before failing CMOS batteries slowly reduce all PS3 and PS4 hardware to semi-functional curios.

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2021/04/the-looming-software-kill-switch-lurking-in-aging-playstation-hardware/

Sony could render the problem moot relatively easily with a firmware update that limits the system functions tied to this timing check. Thus far, though, Sony hasn't publicly indicated it has any such plans and hasn't responded to multiple requests for comment from Ars Technica. Until it does, complicated workarounds that make use of jailbroken firmware are the only option for ensuring that aging PlayStation hardware will remain fully usable well into the future.

You are literally getting up in arms about something you wouldn't care about or know unless someone told you to be angry about it. And it’s all on assumption based on the ill will being drawn out recently through the closing of the store.

[Beezy]

Nintendo MindFuckU

This is great.

[Himu]

Batteries go off all the time, Rah. How do I know when my system battery will die?

Also, this impacts PS3 too. The very system that is having its servers cut off within months and is a decade old system. Given the combination of Sony cutting off servers, the cmos battery issue, Sony not respecting their overall history and BC, and I have no reason to want to invest in their platforms going forward. My ps3 is what, a decade old? How much time does it have left 5 years?

[Himu]

I'm going with Xbox for next gen. I regret buying every single PS4 game I bought due to the CMOS scandal.

Would recommend a new PC instead- it will get all the same games, plus the stuff Xbox won't get.

I prefer physical so that leaves me to Xbox.

[Nintex]

i wouldn't be overly shocked if they sold off their western trash division (eidos) tbh

Bravely Default on Eidos.

But yeah, Square Enix could be bought by Sony, Microsoft or even Nintendo easily.
Whoever puts up enough money gets it. Capcom is probably harder to acquire.

Also I recommend to buy whatever is in stock first because you won't be able to find much for sale anyway.

[Himu]

Also, the entire idea of "no one cares about bc lol" is just bad argumentation. I very much do. I replayed FFVII on my ps2 last year. Speaking of PS2, I have had it hooked it up every tv I have owned since 2001. The only reason it's not hooked up to my current tv is because my ps2 is literally across the country. Last year I played Mario 64 and Banjo Kazooie on real N64 hardware. I have a crt and very much play and buy old games. I very much care and have invested hundreds of games into Sony hardware. Hell, I still play physical NES and SNES games and have been building a collection. I very, very, VERY  much care about BC.

[Svejk]

I'm going with Xbox for next gen. I regret buying every single PS4 game I bought due to the CMOS scandal.

Would recommend a new PC instead- it will get all the same games, plus the stuff Xbox won't get.

I prefer physical so that leaves me to Xbox.

With the only saving grace for xbox right now being GamePass...  Unless you already have a giant XB physical collection already, I wouldn't put your eggs in that basket....

Nintendo shit otherwise? Sure.

[Himu]

Right now, I look at some ps4 games I wanted to play and I seriously don't care. I was going to buy a PS5 to play PS4 games I missed like Resident Evil VII, REmake 2 and 3 but now due to the CMOS news I feel like a dumbass for investing in their platform and are trying to buy any single game I can outside the PlayStation ecosystem. SaGa Frontier Remastered? I'm buying that for Switch physical and digital. SMT3 HD? Switch. I wanted to get Judgement but now I know to get it on Xbox. So I'm going just to get an Xbox Series X and buy the games I wanted for ps4, and rebuy the games I own and cherish on ps4 on Xbox One (Dark Souls Trilogy).

[Himu]

I'm going with Xbox for next gen. I regret buying every single PS4 game I bought due to the CMOS scandal.

Would recommend a new PC instead- it will get all the same games, plus the stuff Xbox won't get.

I prefer physical so that leaves me to Xbox.

With the only saving grace for xbox right now being GamePass...  Unless you already have a giant XB physical collection already, I wouldn't put your eggs in that basket....

Nintendo shit otherwise? Sure.

And trust Sony with the games I own and want to play?

Nah, I'm good.

[Nintex]

This "war" is already over. I'm seeing the Xbots on ResetEra and other places make all kinds of excuses.
"Full RDNA 2 is limiting stock", "Microsoft delayed HALO so they had less supply", "Sony beat them on waffer orders"

https://twitter.com/MatPiscatella/status/1383042564756893703

[MMaRsu]

Honestly ofcourse electronics can die. It's just im used to Nintendo (pre Switch) build quality.

I would like it if my shit still worked in 20 years, and if it does my digital games still work too. I know it might be much to ask but like, maybe not?

[who is ted danson?]

My sony subwoofer just killed itslef so i am now officially team #fucksony

[Svejk]

I'm going with Xbox for next gen. I regret buying every single PS4 game I bought due to the CMOS scandal.

Would recommend a new PC instead- it will get all the same games, plus the stuff Xbox won't get.

I prefer physical so that leaves me to Xbox.

With the only saving grace for xbox right now being GamePass...  Unless you already have a giant XB physical collection already, I wouldn't put your eggs in that basket....

Nintendo shit otherwise? Sure.

And trust Sony with the games I own and want to play?

Nah, I'm good.

Well Yeah, no, I wouldn't do that either if you have physical PS games. 

[Rahxephon91]

Batteries go off all the time, Rah. How do I know when my system battery will die?

Also, this impacts PS3 too. The very system that is having its servers cut off within months and is a decade old system. Given the combination of Sony cutting off servers, the cmos battery issue, Sony not respecting their overall history and BC, and I have no reason to want to invest in their platforms going forward. My ps3 is what, a decade old? How much time does it have left 5 years?

Thats correct. Batteries die off all the time. That’s never stoped you from buying any electronics before. You also have no real reason to believe that the simple server that handles this check will ever go offline or if it does the PS4 wouldn’t already be patched by then. This issue is being wrapped around the PS store issue, but they are not 100% the same. Right now and for the foreseeable future if your cmos were to die, you could replace it no problem.

PS3 is not having its servers cut off. It’s having the store taken down. The servers that handle downloads will still be on. Also If you were to buy a PSP that has never been updated, it would still be able to connect and update. Also the issues that people were having patching PS3 games was fixed. And again the PS3 was recently patched so it could continue playing new encoded blu rays. So there’s plenty of evidence that inspite of the store issue that suggest this cmos issue is overblown.

[Rahxephon91]

Also, the entire idea of "no one cares about bc lol" is just bad argumentation. I very much do. I replayed FFVII on my ps2 last year. Speaking of PS2, I have had it hooked it up every tv I have owned since 2001. The only reason it's not hooked up to my current tv is because my ps2 is literally across the country. Last year I played Mario 64 and Banjo Kazooie on real N64 hardware. I have a crt and very much play and buy old games. I very much care and have invested hundreds of games into Sony hardware. Hell, I still play physical NES and SNES games and have been building a collection. I very, very, VERY  much care about BC.

The counter argument of “I have everything from the nes to the PS5 hooked up through my framemister so clearly people care about BC” is a better argument? 

[Himu]

I didn't say "everyone", just that many care about it. To wave it off with,"no one cares except a minority of people lol" is bad.

[Rahxephon91]

I didn't say "everyone", just that many care about it. To wave it off with,"no one cares except a minority of people lol" is bad.

“No one cares” is hyperbole clearly. People obviously care, but it’s arguable that it’s a pretty small core gamer group only.

But you know you’ve been high on the Switch. Which is a system with known controller issues, which you have no idea if the next system will be BC thanks to its cartridge format,  and made from a company with a very spotty BC legacy as well.

Like this is why I’m taking the stance that right now there’s a whirlwind of seemingly bad press about the PlayStation that is taking hold. Bad stuff that I don’t think most would give a shit about if it wasn’t just a conclave of bad stuff.  This cmos stuff is being magnified by the store going down. But there’s nothing that really supports the cmos issue being this console shattering issue.

[Don Rumata]

I think people play what they're offered, within reason.

I watch a bunch of Let's Plays, and usually "normies" play old games when they get remastered or re-released in a more or less public way, but they do enjoy them unless they're really dated (like a lot of PS1 stuff).
Like there's no reason anybody wouldn't be able to enjoy a Silent Hill 3 nowadays, if it was re-released on a platform people own, and with no hassle to get through to set it up, just get some upres. retouched controls, maybe a quick-save or that kind of minor remaster shit, and that's it.
This is stuff you could basically implement on a system level, like MS is sort of doing.

Some games are cut off of the larger sphere, and only retro nerds will bother, but a lot of other ones, are just out of reach and still perfectly enjoyable.

[Lonewulfeus]

Don’t worry snoys, you’ll forget about all the hard words people said about Sony when you’re playing the next sad dad simulator.

[Himu]

I didn't say "everyone", just that many care about it. To wave it off with,"no one cares except a minority of people lol" is bad.

“No one cares” is hyperbole clearly. People obviously care, but it’s arguable that it’s a pretty small core gamer group only.

But you know you’ve been high on the Switch. Which is a system with known controller issues, which you have no idea if the next system will be BC thanks to its cartridge format,  and made from a company with a very spotty BC legacy as well.

Like this is why I’m taking the stance that right now there’s a whirlwind of seemingly bad press about the PlayStation that is taking hold. Bad stuff that I don’t think most would give a shit about if it wasn’t just a conclave of bad stuff.  This cmos stuff is being magnified by the store going down. But there’s nothing that really supports the cmos issue being this console shattering issue.

Fair criticism. The problem is, I don't expect BC from Nintendo, console-wise. They've never offered it besides with Wii U. It has never been a part of their legacy beyond their portable systems where it has become a mainstay. So my expectations are different. Sony, however, is my old flame. I have higher expectations from Sony than I do Nintendo. With Sony my expectations are much higher. They were, after all, the company that pioneered BC at one point. So it's important to me. I gave them a pass with PS4 not having ps1 or ps2 BC. But now they don't have 1-3 BC on 5 despite 5 being more than capable of 1 or 2 BC. Then there's the CMOS situation. I play on Nintendo hardware over 20 years old regularly and they still work. I consider buying games on a platform an investment, but with PS3 and PS4 turns out they won't even be able to play physical games (my main game investment on those platforms) if the battery goes off. And since Sony isn't doing any BC, well, this complicates things. Combined with my higher standards for Sony and the fact they seemingly don't seem to give a shit, it just turns me off and I'm done giving them chances. While it's true Nintendo Switch Joycon's have durability issues, they're just controllers and third party controllers are a thing. Plus their Pro Controller is expertly crafted. I expect I'll be able to play my Switch 15 years down the road and given Nintendo's history with BC and handheld consoles (which Switch constitutes) I expect to be able to play physical Switch games on the Switch's successor.

[Rahxephon91]

I never got that meme as “sad dad” describes two games.

And the next PS games are Returnal and Ratchet. Sad dad games in deed.

[Himu]

Returnal looks quite good.

Someone please give cogent answers as to why I should invest in Sony's PS5 platform and not just get an Xbox Series X?

[Rahxephon91]

So Nintendo gets the benefit of the doubt, while Sony doesn’t?

There’s no no known CMOS issue with PS5.

PS5 is fully BC with the PS4 unlike the Switch, but you expect no problems with the next Nintendo system?

PS3 comos issue is not the same as the PS4 and will be playable after it’s replaced if needed. There’s nothing that says you won’t be able to play physical games.

PS4 cmos issue is fixable. You’re just assuming it won’t be based on really just nihilism. Like again they patched the PS3 so it could work with modern blu rays just for months ago. The PSP can still download updates and patches. They are taking down the store but have said that downloads will still be going on. There is no real sign that 20 years from now the simple certificate check is going down.

Like to me, you are banging on a a bunch of assumptions. You say they don’t care, but the facts don’t line up with how these systems are supported.

[Himu]

I have much lower expectations from Sony than Nintendo. Nintendo is doing what they've always done. This is the company whose games never drop in price. Not only is Sony make it harder to play their systems that I currently own, I have zero reason to trust them in the future given their current priorities. Microsoft is meeting those priorities.

[paprikastaude]

If the time comes, I can see Jimbo being the kind of guy telling people with broken PS4s to buy a PS5 if they want to keep their games.

But I wouldn't worry about my collection. Hardware is one of my smallest concerns for preservation. There's enough freaks making shit like Retron5 for consoles that were much less popular and way clumsier to handle. If Sony doesn't do it, no question there'll be an instant hack to remove the clock or whatever in no time.

[Rahxephon91]

How are they making it harder? This is a pure what if situation.

Well what if the Series X has another RROD.

What if MS stops Gamepass?

[Himu]

How are they making it harder? This is a pure what if situation.

Well what if the Series X has another RROD.

What if MS stops Gamepass?

This entire thing has been predicated on worst case scenarios, though. Sony culling things I care about like Japan Studio and their other Japanese output, their treatment of their history, their priorities, the CMOS debacle, all combined makes me not want to support or reward them.

[Nintex]

Depends on what you're looking for games like Perfect Dark and Fable won't release until 2023/2024. 2021 will be HALO and maybe Forza, followed by the Rare game in 2022.

Sony has a bigger number of exclusives out sooner.
PS5 also seems be the lead platform for a number of 3rd party games like Village and Square Enix but performance will be very similar.

The big advantages are GamePass and backwards compatibility.

[Trent Dole]

lol fanboy bullshit. Buy everything if you wanna, you can afford it.

[bork]

Cindi, what about where FGC goes with consoles?  Xbox is still getting less fighting games compared to PS4/5 and PC- look at Guilty Gear Strive, for example.

[Himu]

Cindi, what about where FGC goes with consoles?  Xbox is still getting less fighting games compared to PS4/5 and PC- look at Guilty Gear Strive, for example.

Most players play on pc these days and Strive is coming to pc. Even more reason to not care about the next PS console.

[headwalk]

the FGC being PS centric doesn't make sense anymore given that moving to PS5 means: upgrading your console, rebuying all your peripherals, paying console tax on new releases, paying a monthly fee to play online, having to cart a giant monstrosity around with you when you could build a mITX PC that's half the size and twice as powerful, and you'll need a different console for older games (or a laptop for MAME era stuff)

[Beezy]

No one can build shit for the foreseeable future without overpaying for a GPU. Even the 1000 series cards.

[Himu]

the FGC being PS centric doesn't make sense anymore given that moving to PS5 means: upgrading your console, rebuying all your peripherals, paying console tax on new releases, paying a monthly fee to play online, having to cart a giant monstrosity around with you when you could build a mITX PC that's half the size and twice as powerful, and you'll need a different console for older games (or a laptop for MAME era stuff)

Xbox S is also smaller and cheaper and includes BC so people can play old games more easily. Most have accepted ps5 as the next fgc console though, but many are still sticking with pc. People hate playing fgs on psn. Literally. Hate. And most players I play with just play on PC. So console choice doesn't affect me.

[Let's Cyber]

Xbox S is also smaller and cheaper and includes BC so people can play old games more easily.

Not if your collection is physical.

[Rahxephon91]

Xbox S also seems like the most pointless console so far. Weaker and digital only. I’m good.

[Nintex]

Xbox S also seems like the most pointless console so far. Weaker and digital only. I’m good.

Xbox S with GamePass is actually a very compelling product if you're still stuck on a 1080p screen or just want a gaming machine with a small footprint.
If Microsoft would've put some marketing behind it, it could've been a surprise hit.

[Pissy F Benny]

500 gig hard drive too

[bork]

the FGC being PS centric doesn't make sense anymore given that moving to PS5 means: upgrading your console, rebuying all your peripherals, paying console tax on new releases, paying a monthly fee to play online, having to cart a giant monstrosity around with you when you could build a mITX PC that's half the size and twice as powerful, and you'll need a different console for older games (or a laptop for MAME era stuff)

Xbox S is also smaller and cheaper and includes BC so people can play old games more easily. Most have accepted ps5 as the next fgc console though, but many are still sticking with pc. People hate playing fgs on psn. Literally. Hate. And most players I play with just play on PC. So console choice doesn't affect me.

Would just keep in mind that not everything is going to release on PC at the same time as PS4 or PS5 and the general online populations are going to be lower if the games don't have crossplay- or just dead if it's not released on Steam (like Samurai Shodown- sent to die on EGS).  Something like Street Fighter 6 not having cross-play would make me buy it on a PS console, but if the leaks are to be believed, it's coming out on PS4 anyway.

[benjipwns]

I'm pretty sure the Series S exists purely so Microsoft can say that the Xbox starts at $299, whether or not anyone actually buys them. Or can buy them.

[Supermanisdead]

i have a series S. its really great actually. small, quiet, cheap. i got a deal on 15 months of gamepass for about 30 dollars so its been perfect.

[team filler]

series s is a complete piece of shit 

[BIONIC]

series s is a complete piece of shit 

What do you think the S stands for? 

[MMaRsu]

series s is a complete piece of shit 

What do you think the S stands for? 

[bork]

https://twitter.com/PlayStation/status/1384190230354223110

 

[Don Rumata]

Imagine the suckers who bought ps3 games on ebay in these past few weeks. 

[MMaRsu]

Imagine the suckers who bought ps3 games on ebay in these past few weeks. 

For enormeous prices too!

Thankfully shit will hopefully calm down a bit so I can buy some games for cheap

[paprikastaude]

One of many Ls for idiot fanboys who demonize everyone who is not content with their favorite company's "genius" marketing plans. Actual fans always need to voice concerns and discontent, so maybe some kind of change might happen. Doesn't matter how troll-ish these concerns might look.

Sadly, it's not like that corporate sluts of any kind ever remember these things. The idiots who now said "who needs old games anyway, good move / have you played old things recently???" are the same kind who sperge over Demon's Souls and Xenoblade in their list wars, but back in the day also boot-licked their favorite CEOs' decision not to localize the originals out of "rational" marketing reaons.

[Svejk]

Imagine the suckers who bought ps3 games on ebay in these past few weeks. 

And the surge of digital software sales in the process.    People should be even more pissed now. 

Sounds like a similar scenario like when MS hiked the XB Live subscription to double the price for no reason whatsoever, then rolled it back when enough people bitched about it.

[mormapope]

People should keep bitching so they expand BC to everything on PS3/Vita to PS5. Id buy a PS5 in a heartbeat if I could play all the digital versions of PS1 JRPGs on it.

[paprikastaude]

People should keep bitching so they expand BC to everything on PS3/Vita to PS5. Id buy a PS5 in a heartbeat if I could play all the digital versions of PS1 JRPGs on it.

There's been enough people saying that Krazy Ken's PS3 architecture is too hard to emulate that I can believe it. But no one can tell me that enabling those PS1 games is any more difficult than checking some box that makes your machine play music files.    The PS2 emulator seems a little iffy on PS3 from my experience, but that shouldn't cause problems on a PS5 either anymore, I'd assume. Some argued that the lacklustre PS2 support on PS4 was because of new trophies they'd have to add. Which would be dumb. Trophy cheat prevention is also why they designed that online check for the PS4 internal clock. As if we needed more proof that this is the most stupid feature of modern gaming.

I guess, especially with how MS does things, the expectation might now be that you remaster every old game individually into 4k or whatever. But I don't care, just let me play my things easily through HDMI without switching the machine.

[Himu]

One of many Ls for idiot fanboys who demonize everyone who is not content with their favorite company's "genius" marketing plans. Actual fans always need to voice concerns and discontent, so maybe some kind of change might happen. Doesn't matter how troll-ish these concerns might look.

Sadly, it's not like that corporate sluts of any kind ever remember these things. The idiots who now said "who needs old games anyway, good move / have you played old things recently???" are the same kind who sperge over Demon's Souls and Xenoblade in their list wars, but back in the day also boot-licked their favorite CEOs' decision not to localize the originals out of "rational" marketing reaons.

Yup. It's tough love out here being an actual game fan.

[Tuckers Law]

One of many Ls for idiot fanboys who demonize everyone who is not content with their favorite company's "genius" marketing plans. Actual fans always need to voice concerns and discontent, so maybe some kind of change might happen. Doesn't matter how troll-ish these concerns might look.

Sadly, it's not like that corporate sluts of any kind ever remember these things. The idiots who now said "who needs old games anyway, good move / have you played old things recently???" are the same kind who sperge over Demon's Souls and Xenoblade in their list wars, but back in the day also boot-licked their favorite CEOs' decision not to localize the originals out of "rational" marketing reaons.

You say a lot of mad and crazy shit about video games, but this is the realist thing you’ve ever said.  I cannot possibly co-sign it enough.

 

[naff]

cindi



anyway, you can replace your cmos battery in a ps4 just like you would a pc's. how would you recommend a device keeping it's date/time when unplugged without using a CMOS? guess it sucks the console is all but bricked without it or an internet connection, but the fix is extremely simple and only something you'd have to do every 10 to 20 years. all for complaining about stuff, but this seems like a bit of a non event.

also lol, wth is going on with people  https://twitter.com/DoesItPlay1/status/1384282918877491210

https://www.tomsguide.com/news/ps5-battery-failure-issue-exposed-what-you-need-to-know
also how it applies to ps5 (series is more or less the same afaik, switch likely too)

Why does my PS5 need to know the time?
DRM, or digital rights management, is used to protect copyrights on digital media. Technologies like DRM require internet connections to ensure a person is playing a legitimate piece of media. Because Sony wraps PS5 games in this protective bubble to prevent theft, the system needs to know the time or it upsets the DRM and it locks you out of the game.

It’s also possible that Sony could, if it wanted to, send a final patch out to consoles when it’s going to stop supporting them that would remove all of these restrictions. That would mean that any games on your console would continue to work with or without the internet. Will Sony do that? Unlikely.

There's also the issue of trophy synching. For trophies to sync properly with Sony's servers, it requires the CMOS battery to be alive. If trophies don't properly sync, gamers will run into errors.

The big argument here is that many people want their current consoles to be like the NES, which you can plug in and use right now. Modern consoles are too reliant on DRM and connecting to the internet for that to be guaranteed in the future.

i doubt nintendo is exempt from these issues either. this is just how modern consumer tech works m8s.

[Tasty]

this is just how modern consumer tech works m8s.

This is such a bullshit cop-out lol.

[Don Rumata]

Like with everything else, people bitching about it online seems to be the only recourse (where a patch can be a solution).
But i don't think enough people care to move the needle, tbh.

[Tasty]

i doubt nintendo is exempt from these issues either.

They are. Or at least, these specific issues.

Trophies are stupid bullshit and requiring extra hardware to make sure "the time is tip-top perfect and no bad smelly hackers have EVER changed it" is fucking overkill.

I will die on this hill. Fuck system-level trophies and achievements, especially if this is the outcome.





Also fuck MS's new Xbox sign-up process. Google enforces something similar for Chromebooks and it's not cool there either. Microsoft keeps prompting me to add an account to Windows 10 and won't even let you activate a new computer without an MS account now unless you physically disconnect from the internet. I hate this direction for hardware you ostensibly own.